New Character Builder from WotC!

[Shazman]

Oh, I am vehemently against cloud computing. I have spent long hours of heated debate arguing against it with anyone from the casual user to the experienced IT professional. It's a dangerous slope that leads us deeper into the ever growing dependence upon others for what should be things we can accomplish ourselves. It allows people to distance themselves from knowing how things actually work in favor of allowing "someone else" to deal with it.

The reason I have seemed to closed to hearing their opinions is that this topic started out with the pirate talk of "how dare they prevent me from stealing from them!" with posters freely admitting that they, and others they know, pay 10 bucks for thousands dollars in books worth of data. With that as setting the stage for this discussion, I simply can't stand it, I am in fact, in the process of buying more books because the new game i'm starting the DM has made it clear that we can do whatever we want, so long as we have a book to take it from.

And while I don't like THAT either, I enjoy playing D&D, and so I make sacrifices to continue playing the things I enjoy. Given this choice, I would rather not have my characters stored on their servers. And I'm certainly not writing any backgrounds into my characters if I have to store them remotely.

BUT, I do enjoy the service the CB provides, and even if it's online, I'll still pay to use it, and the other tools, and will always remember that mathematically, it's a much better deal.


If 20-30 is too much a month, you may want to consider a cheaper hobby, or start telling your players to chip in for ink if they want to use your printer. But then, that would make you like WotC, charging for the use of a service.


No, they didn't. Now, they did. Maybe it simply took them longer than they were planning, perhaps the dip in sales others have mentioned really made them get this out sooner than they had planned. No matter how you roll it, we all know that what was going on was abusing the system. Even if it was "ok" to do, simply because nobody stopped you, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

If you actually had to do something special to "abuse" the system, I may agree with you. You don't have to hack into WotC's computers or get a special pass code from a WotC employee to download every update released for the character builder so far. All you have to do is buy a subscription and update the character builder. That's it. You don't even have to know that you are getting all that info for a month subscription. If someone sees the character builder, downloads the demo, buys a subscription, and updates the character builder, they get everything whether they want it or not and whether they know it or not. If this "abuse" is so easy and ingrained into their model that you can do it unwittingly, I don't see how you can claim it's "abusing" the system.

 

[nerfherder]

No matter how you roll it, we all know that what was going on was abusing the system. Even if it was "ok" to do, simply because nobody stopped you, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I disagree. WotC offered software for an amount of money, and I paid them that money and downloaded the software. No abuse whatsoever.

 

[MerricB]

Monster Builder 4e may let me generate my own monsters, but how do I put them together in one document for an adventure? I'm not that tech savvy, and I decided not to search the program for a stat-block maker/exporter, as I can save way more money by getting out.

How you can post on the internet is beyond me, because it seems your tech-savviness is approaching zero. The export stat block function in Monster Builder has been its best features for me: many a stat block have I inserted into a Word document which I've then used to run my adventure from.

Incidently, PCgen for Pathfinder is FREE.

After fuming against computer technology because it uses power and you have to reprint character sheets, you suggest using... computer technology? The mind boggles.

Your basic reasons for not using the 4E DDi tools are:
* You play Pathfinder
* You have trouble using computers

Goodbye.

 

[MerricB]

I disagree. WotC offered software for an amount of money, and I paid them that money and downloaded the software. No abuse whatsoever.

Quite right.

(I say this as someone who has been a subscriber since the beginning, and who will continue to be a subscriber as long as the service offers me something... although it's on shaky ground at present).

That Wizards is changing its services to something that it probably should have been from the beginning isn't that much of a surprise to me. Do I dislike the new Silverlight-version of the CB? Well, I'll have to see it, but at present I don't consider it as useful as the old.

Wizards' biggest problem is trying to get back the good will they squandered whilst implementing this change - the lack of updates in the couple of months beforehand - when coupled with what is to many a downgrade of the service? Not good.

Cheers!

 

[delericho]

The old "buy a one-month subscription, download six months of updates, cancel subscription" trick won't work any more.

There goes the only money WotC were getting from me. I understand why this has been done, and don't blame them in the slightest for doing so, but it's a really bad move for me.

What about custom character pics? Will those also be stored on the WotC server? Could end up taking a lot of space...

Could be a major problem in the making. When I created my most recent character, I did a Google image search to get a suitable picture. The copyright for that picture is owned by someone.

Now, as long as I'm importing that picture into my copy of the Character Builder for my use, and not distributing it to anyone, the copyright implications are so minor as to be ignored.

But surely it becomes a problem if people start uploading custom images to the WotC servers (copyright someone) and then WotC start making those files available for download?

 

[fireinthedust]

I know we all want to be enviro-friendly, but this is just a little silly. Books are made at the expense of trees, shouldn't you stop using those too?

Silly? Trees grow back in a decade, fossil fuels require eons and entire forests.

Trees die once, the book lasts maybe longer than I will; this happens once.
Every second I spend looking at a book online, or re-accessing or making changes to a character, I'm spending energy. Over and over again.

I got a printer on sale nearly a year ago for $50 bucks, the ink it came with has lasted till now and is still fine. It's your choice to let players print at your home. My groups tell me to use my own paper, so I do. The cost of ink per page is so minimal, you're pretty much saying you can't afford the paper itsself.

Not really. Color and paper and suchnot is expensive. Players can print things off themselves, but my experience is that most don't.

And when you're printing off every character, five or six sheets each, for seven players, on a dinky home printer *every game or level*, it adds up.

This is similar to typing one page after another until a novel is finished. Just keep at it, and keep them all handy in a folder. They add up over the course of even a few game nights.

Now you're just being silly. You know as well as I do that there is plenty of empty space left on a CB sheet print out on which you can write temporary modifiers, or add items. Short of leveling up, you can do everything you need to on the sheet just as you could on any older D&D sheet.

Not everything. And leveling up is a huge issue, as is adding more items. it changes the sheet.

And claiming you'll need to buy a new printer? Come on man. My buddy prints out B+W sheets on an HP printer that's gotta be 10 years old.

That's great. Where I live, however, the cost of an ink cartridge is the same as a printer. Literally, last time I checked, it's cheaper to just buy a new printer than buy ink cartridges. I'm not making this up.

There's a very good chance you make more money than I do, and that you don't have children. I'm literally counting coins, and money is tight. I can't afford to waste even a few dollars I don't have to.

And the CB has so much in the way of pictures and wasted space on the sheets, I wonder if the makers have stock in printer companies.

 

[GandalfMithrandir]

OK, the way I see it, this thread is degenerating.

Examples:

Your basic reasons for not using the 4E DDi tools are:
* You play Pathfinder
* You have trouble using computers

Goodbye.

and arguing about how much it cost to print off sheets, a lot of people do not make very much money and still game, for that reason it is harder to print stuff off, especially if ink and paper costs a lot for them, depending on where they live, I know people that are really rich and play D&D, I also know people that are dirt poor that also play D&D, one of whom bought a crappy 3.0 players handbook for a pathfinder game because that is all he could afford at the used bookstore. That guy can't even afford a printer in the first place, let alone continue to print off of it, that's just the way it is, and I don't see any point in argueing about how he should by a printer. Also the ability to afford a printer and ink and paper depends on the printer, some printers use more ink, or just get used more, and so the cost of ink is higher because more is used.

I think what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of variables in peoples resources and ability to do things, and I, personally, do not think it is productive to argue about these differences, because they are, they are most likely not going to change, and they are different to each person.

 

[MerricB]

Examples:

Well, one example

I think what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of variables in peoples resources and ability to do things, and I, personally, do not think it is productive to argue about these differences, because they are, they are most likely not going to change, and they are different to each person.

Indeed. Personally, I'm just as likely to create my own PC using Word or pen & paper as use the CB. I don't think inability to use the CB through lack of resources is a killer at all to enjoyable play of 4E - although the rules updates might be making it more so, but obsoleting sections of previous rulebooks.

Mind you, I would have *loved* a good monster builder during 3E days, especially one that had all the monsters in it already and was good at levelling them up. It's the most used feature of the 4E MB for me.

Cheers!

 

[renau1g]

I'm also miffed they strung us along for two months with an update coming and supplemental tools coming that were "exciting" and had the staff and VCL's all tingly with giddiness. Then they say our new tools aren't even new, they're just a degredation of your current tool which many people were quite happy with. Sorry, but that's not something that makes me happy, combining that with the communication issues, and the extremely declining quality of the ezines, and their reduction in content = me paying more for less than I got for this price a year ago. In this current economy I have less income for gaming (combined with a newborn) so this is an easy decision for me.

 

[aboyd]

That said, I think it's hilarious to hear people griping about "paying for material I'll never use" when they're only paying 10 bucks or less a month for it. You were all abusing the system and you know it. You are the pirates WOTC is trying to stop.

I'm uncomfortable with this. We're now calling the paying customers "pirates" because $10/month is a good value? That's piracy?

"Whoa! I found a bargain, but I'm nervous to take it, because hey, piracy."