New Character Builder from WotC!

If 20-30 is too much a month, you may want to consider a cheaper hobby, or start telling your players to chip in for ink if they want to use your printer. But then, that would make you like WotC, charging for the use of a service.

The cost of D&D has never been 20-30 a month, so if you think this should be the way the hobby is, you really should go play WOW. I've played since 2e and I purchased the PHB for 3e and guess what... that's all I had to buy. Heck...I didn't even need that, I had the SRD and needed nothing else to play.
 

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Do you think that WotC would not have planned and built this option into their model? What you are calling piracy and abuse, would seem to be more a concession to less affluent gamers. Without that option those gamers would not have as fully embraced 4e - perhaps significantly enough so that WotC's market research decided that that option must be in the model. By taking away that option, WotC are obviously moving to "phase two" of their digital plan.
WotC made money for years selling books, with absolutely no digital component. Considering the status of WotC's websites, I suspect that they simply designed it poorly, hoping people would be more honorable. Since they were not, things have changed.

There is a huge gulf of difference between paying WotC to gain access to the resources they make available, and not paying WotC and downloading those resources from the internet. I'm almost positive that it could be reasonably argued that this phase two move will increase/encourage higher levels of genuine piracy of their material.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Yes, there are different levels of piracy, full on stealing, and abuse of a bad system.

Thats just funny.
First I'm a player not a DM. The groups I play with don't play at my house.
They don't use my ink or my printer. I have been playing since 1982. So I know the expence of this hobby. But i understand how tight things are for people now adays. 20 a month can be alot for some people right now. For who the money can be spent better elsewhere. If you think this hobby is for the rich your wrong.

I know this hobby isn't for the rich, but I do know that it's easier to support with a fatter wallet.

Silly? Trees grow back in a decade, fossil fuels require eons and entire forests.
"trees" don't grow back in a decade. If you compare the wood growing now, with the wood from 30 years ago, the quality difference is HUGE.

Trees die once, the book lasts maybe longer than I will; this happens once.
Every second I spend looking at a book online, or re-accessing or making changes to a character, I'm spending energy. Over and over again.
One book is not all that's being made, a million books are being made. Nobody cuts down "one tree".

Honestly, I can't believe you're arguing that we should preserve fossil fuels and cut down forests. It's so paradoxical I think my head hurts.

Not really. Color and paper and suchnot is expensive. Players can print things off themselves, but my experience is that most don't.
Wow, lazy players you have then. If they don't print it off, then their laziness shouldn't be rewarded by the GM printing it off.

And when you're printing off every character, five or six sheets each, for seven players, on a dinky home printer *every game or level*, it adds up.

This is similar to typing one page after another until a novel is finished. Just keep at it, and keep them all handy in a folder. They add up over the course of even a few game nights.

Don't reward laziness. I don't.

Not everything. And leveling up is a huge issue, as is adding more items. it changes the sheet.
Yes, but to be honest I can't imagine that one would have SO many items on their sheet as to fill up all the space left by the character builder.

That's great. Where I live, however, the cost of an ink cartridge is the same as a printer. Literally, last time I checked, it's cheaper to just buy a new printer than buy ink cartridges. I'm not making this up.
No, I believe you, I even used to sell them(and I didn't even get a discount!).

There's a very good chance you make more money than I do, and that you don't have children. I'm literally counting coins, and money is tight. I can't afford to waste even a few dollars I don't have to.

And the CB has so much in the way of pictures and wasted space on the sheets, I wonder if the makers have stock in printer companies.
Doubtful I make more money, but no I don't have children. Bet lets not bring them into it, if you're going to bring your children up as "why you can't afford" these things, then that's a whole other kettle of fish.

And the CB actually has a lot of options for compressing the text, try out some of the features.
 

The cost of D&D has never been 20-30 a month, so if you think this should be the way the hobby is, you really should go play WOW. I've played since 2e and I purchased the PHB for 3e and guess what... that's all I had to buy. Heck...I didn't even need that, I had the SRD and needed nothing else to play.

So true. One of the great things about D&D (or your system of choice) is you can pick up a couple of core books and have hours and hours of entertainment from those books. The RPG hobby can be as cheap or as expensive as one wants to make it, I certainly hope RPG players always have that choice.
 

Yes, there are different levels of piracy, full on stealing, and abuse of a bad system.

www.thefreedictionary.com said:
pi·ra·cy (pr-s)
n. pl. pi·ra·cies
1.
a. Robbery committed at sea.
b. A similar act of robbery, as the hijacking of an airplane.
2. The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy.
3. The operation of an unlicensed, illegal radio or television station.

Hmm...none of them spells out purchasing an offered program or service from a corporation. There's nothing abusive of the way people were doing things. I never partook in it because I hated waiting for the newest stuff so I bought the yearly subscription. That's way better for WotC than people just as easily stealing it on the variety of sites.
 

WotC made money for years selling books, with absolutely no digital component. Considering the status of WotC's websites, I suspect that they simply designed it poorly, hoping people would be more honorable. Since they were not, things have changed.

I don't think the honourable status of people actually has much to do with it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Wizards would have liked the purely online version from the beginning, but the failure of Gleemax took away a lot of the resources that would have otherwise been devoted to the online character builder.

Then too, I believe that designing a standalone program is quite a bit easier than the online version.

Cheers!
 

CB does the math, so no erasing changes. All changes are in ink, so all sheets must be re-done. That includes every. single. item. If the PCs so much as pick up a torch, I have to go online to update that, print it out in glorious technicolour, and pay out the nose for new ink, a new printer, paper, and the electricity to run my computer?

I'm bummed about the change to the Character Builder, but this comment struck me as strange. When I get a new item for my Character Builder-generated character sheet, I write it on there - there are plenty of blank spaces for new inventory. If it's an item that changes some of my attack bonuses or defenses or the like, I cross out the old number and write the new one. Every couple of levels, I'll do a full re-print in order to have things nice and clean. That has never felt onerous to me, personally.

Monster Builder 4e may let me generate my own monsters, but how do I put them together in one document for an adventure? I'm not that tech savvy, and I decided not to search the program for a stat-block maker/exporter, as I can save way more money by getting out.

Not that this matters for you since you don't use the program any more, but in the Monster Builder you can right click on the name of a monster and copy it as Rich Text or an image and then paste that into your Word document (I use Rich Text for my exports, personally).
 

Herremann the Wise said:
Do you think that WotC would not have planned and built this option into their model? What you are calling piracy and abuse, would seem to be more a concession to less affluent gamers. Without that option those gamers would not have as fully embraced 4e - perhaps significantly enough so that WotC's market research decided that that option must be in the model. By taking away that option, WotC are obviously moving to "phase two" of their digital plan.
WotC made money for years selling books, with absolutely no digital component.
And they should continue to do so? I'm not getting your point here.

shidaku said:
Considering the status of WotC's websites, I suspect that they simply designed it poorly, hoping people would be more honorable. Since they were not, things have changed.
I think many would agree that the CB is the pinnacle of D&D software produced by WotC. To say something as easily changeable as the subscription model was poorly planned seems extreme. How much analysis and finance personnel must this have gone through before getting approved? I can guarantee you more than what you are saying.

Do you think there is a lack of honour in unsubscribing and resubscribing further down the track? I'm not getting were honour enters the equation. Do you think that WotC would allow their bottom line to be so heavily influenced by such a thing as the "honour" of their consumers?

Shidaku said:
Herremann the Wise said:
There is a huge gulf of difference between paying WotC to gain access to the resources they make available, and not paying WotC and downloading those resources from the internet. I'm almost positive that it could be reasonably argued that this phase two move will increase/encourage higher levels of genuine piracy of their material.
Yes, there are different levels of piracy, full on stealing, and abuse of a bad system.
Abuse of a bad system? Firstly you are assuming the system is bad or poorly designed (I dare counter that it was in fact very carefully planned) and then secondly, you are saying that allowing a consumer to purchase this system in a manner that's best value/most suitable for them is abuse! The only abuse I can gauge from this is that being metred out to logic.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

I don't think the honourable status of people actually has much to do with it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Wizards would have liked the purely online version from the beginning, but the failure of Gleemax took away a lot of the resources that would have otherwise been devoted to the online character builder.

Then too, I believe that designing a standalone program is quite a bit easier than the online version.

Cheers!

Funny - and, now, sadly - enough, the offline version they were forced to make due with is a thousand times better then their online version that they wanted.

Speaking of which, things the online CB does not have in comparison:

No exporting
No houserules
No altering magic items
No adding feats or powers to characters (Do you add expertise automatically to character? Not anymore!)
No sharing characters with others (Hello, now gigantic DM workload!)
No offline usage
No viability with popular websites such as iPlay4e
No usage when servers are down

This isn't some vast and terrible conspiracy against WotC. It's WotC taking a powerful, awesome, and incredibly useful tool, and then shooting it - and themselves - right in the face. That's why people are pissed; because Character Builder added a ton to their games, and now it's being taken behind the shed for no given reason.
 

I knew this was the direction that electronic tools would take eventually. I am glad to have realized that I can enjoy tabletop rpgs without them.

WOTC no longer has products that interest me with or without these new online tools.

Being dependent on such things for your tabletop gaming puts WOTC in a position to tell you what rules to use, when to "upgrade", etc. I will bet that all characters stored in "the cloud" will be conveniently converted to 5E for you when they decide it's time for your campaign to move on.
 

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