New Chat Site?

[JudeSedai]

Good grief, someone lock Krystal and Darrius in a room together and let them duke it out.

...I could put it on live streaming on the net and sell tickets!!!

::laughs:: I think I might pay money to see that.....

::hides from Krystal:: Don't hurt me!


:help:



All humor aside....Bhyrn and Dragona are right. For me and a lot of us, descriptions are a must.

And for everyone complaining about having to redo all of their descriptions....I keep all of mine saved in a .txt file on my hard drive, that way I have another copy of them all and I can easily periodically review them and edit them before uploading them again. This might be a good idea for other folks to pick up on (if they haven't already).

 

[Dragona Nightsky]

@Dragona: While I appreciate your concern, might I suggest that if the discussion here is too intense that you just take a few moments to get a nice cup of tea, or coffee, or whatever it is you do to relax and let people do the same without trying to divert them to an unrelated thread.

Mel has asked for feedback in other forums and she is making the effort to reply here and it things like this do work better if people stay focused on the point of the discussion, and so far everyone has stayed focused on the point of discussion.

Thank you.

Believe me, I too feel this is an important subject, but we do no good to ourselves or anyone for that matter to start griping at each other instead of focusing on the subject at hand. That's all that was meant for, honest! No attempts to divert from the subject matter included, just an offer for people to take a breather and find a little humor in -something- so they don't get completely bogged down in this discussion, as it seems is happening in some cases, and which, again, won't help anyone or get anything done IMHO.

Hope that clears that up

Time Out!

Everyone is forgetting a few things.

1. Again, Software is purchased. If it doesn't function, perhaps as Jardel said, the purchasers should speak to the the vendor about paying money for a service that was not delivered. Either way, this is really a moot point except for whether or not Mel chooses to try and get the product that was purchases, and that is up to Mel and the others alone.

2. This is not an attack, on Anyone. This is not against the staff, or the patrons, or any person. The decision is disliked, yes.. but we do not attack people, we attack ideas.

3. We are moving away from the point.. This should be a place where we an mention aspects of the new server client we would hope to change..

4. We should be working to a compromise, rather than working against one another. A community works together, to make things more enjoyable for as many folks as possible, and that is what community means.

*hugs ya for saying that* Exactly the point I was trying to make, just in a much more lighthearted manner

Although I too feel the need to touch on this statement:

... where as the older crew leaving is basically meaningless, in all honesty. Yes it means for a bit no older patrons to help new patrons aside from the WizOs, but you know what? It also means fewer people who have it in their heads that they are intriniscially important to the site, and refuse all forms of change.

I'm not going to say much more than that this is very rude and unneccessary to the conversation. I think aside from that Jardel and Nevine covered it well enough.

------------

Now then...ALL of that aside, back on the subject, I too have to wonder after reading over all the posts just -why- Wizards didn't return the software when it failed to deliver on what it promised. I'll admit, I'm no business guru or techie or anything like that, but if I spend -my- money on something that doesn't delver what it promised, I return it. Why is Wizards not doing the same? Surely there's enough vested interest not only from the standpoint of satifying your own customers but also from a business standpoint of getting your money's worth out of this software you likely have paid exorbitant amounts of money for, is there not?

And finaly, just to reiterate the point:

For me and a lot of us, descriptions are a must.

Very much so! I believe this is chief among all our concerns, really.

-Draggy

 

[Darrius of the Guardians]

No. But, they have a vested interest in their 10K software and function it is supposed to perform. It is meant to replace iChat. It is meant to be "better" for the Wizards.comMUNITY rooms. It poorly serves this function when it comes to the area with the highest traffic. ISRP.

It poorly serves currently, from what I have seen of Mel's posts both here and in the main community thread they are working at getting to function properly for the ISRP as well, hence her irritation at us taking things melodramtically to an extreme and painting devils horns and giving pitch forks to the corporate entity behind this.

iChat goes down over the weekend (or for prolonged amounts of time) once in a blue moon. I'm sure the yearly average of Java vs. iChat outages will be much the same. However, we'll just have to wait and see on that one.

Actually we won't I can assure the yearly average will be much lower as for the simple reason of ease of reset for Java, and the fact they can return the Chat server to a joint server (or do you forget the period about two...maybe two and half years ago when every other weekend the chat softwear would go down.

Yes. People leave and never come back because of no Mozzila support and the difficulty of moderation. No, no they don't. The majority of people leave because they a.) don't enjoy the environment (read: people) anymore. b.) don't like how the WizO's run things. or c.) dislike the OOC drama. The amount that may leave because of iChat is not enough to base an arguement/point on. I almost can't believe I read that right.

Right, thats why people abadon the site, they dislike the OOC drama so they leave to a smaller communities where there is much greater prejudice in the way things are ran and the OOC drama is much higher, that I can believe. Or are you refering to the people who simply move on from ISRP? Or do you forget the threads from a few years ago, when if memory actually serves I recall a thread from Mel giving a variety of chat choices.

I also recall being one of the few to respond to said thread with my thoughts on the chat services offered.

Veiled insult much? Keep the jackassry to a minimum, thanks. Oooh...expletive deleted.

How did you put it...
Hmmm Oh yes

Dear Kettle,

It has come to my attention that you are black.

Sincerely,

Pot

Or do you claim the comment about not liking things that suck not to vieled insult?

I admit my language was rough, because I for one grow weary of reading similar posts bashing the new chat system, when I can recall Mel's thread about it and how few the throngs of people opposed actually gave a damn of giving her an ounce of opinion about chat systems, but now that she has one that her and her team and have worked at getting right she gets berrated and insulted. Pardon me, if I find that coupled with several other revolving threads that caused me at one point to grow weary of this place and the general whinny attitude of multitudes.

That's the exact opposite of the problem most people are having with the switch.

Most people posting on this thread, which means most people who haven't been to other internet communties, because I have news for you
This is the only major community, that I know of, that signing up for the boards does not crossover to boards and visa versa. This is abnormality brought on by the info-in-no-info-out problem of Ichat which makes it assbackward (I bet) to moderate.

Because, typing /roomlist is hard.

It does when you are trying to track three converstations and two diffrent characters.

[quote
Touché.[/QUOTE]
And this is the main reason I actually reply to threads with you Nevine, you are willing to give in on points.

 

[Darrius of the Guardians]

Without a doubt necessary? Well I'm sorry I have a doubt and that's why my questions are directed at Mel, who unlike you, does work for WotC and have an inside view as to the motives behind these decisions.

So where were you doubts two years ago when everyone was attacking wizards for Ichat going down every week and they started this?

Able to RP without them? Able to. Please note that the conversation is not in regards as to whether it is physically possible to RP on the new chat software but rather whether is it desirable to roleplay on the new chat software and whether it is sufficently desireable that we will choose to come to ISRP rather than another chat site.

So the number htat currently use Cheetachat to roleplay do so in a less desirable manner because you think so? Get off your high horse.

And as for your statement on Cheetahchat, what about the many chat patrons like myself who use IE to log in even though we use another browser so that we can see the top frame? Don't we deserve some consideration too?

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can make sweeping generalization about the topframes being critical to all forms of RP, it is a valid need to some, but not all as your post made it seem, including it vitally with the descriptions.

No. If Mel's addressing of this issue to date was enough for me I wouldn't be posting here would I? As for threats of population migrations, I suggest you do what I do and let Mel worry about them, she is the boss after all.

Because I for one want to make sure Mel and the others know despite the appearance on the boards there are plenty who do appreciate the effort, and remeber the effort, put into this.

You know what? Studies show that most people won't write in to complain about a product, they'll just abandon it. Ergo if you have a good number of people writing in to complain about for the same objective reasons it's likely there's a large amount of them willing to just quit for the same reasons.

Yes but as the Community is not he product of Wizards but, infact, a service of Wizards (which is the gaming/hobby sector not the service) it is unlikely that people abandoing Wizards Community would have a long term effect as, in the past, more would/will just come and replace those who leave.

I don't care if it was the janitor or the CEO who made promises that weren't met, if I company promises you something to get a ten thousand dollar sale and then just outright fails to deliver is at best of questionable credibility.

To put it this way: If they can't even work out what their software does and doesn't do why should we believe anything they say it does or doesn't do?

You work with an IT company, from your previous statments at anyrate, yet you fail to see the diffrences in what Sales promise and what Tech delivers? Or do you, infact, abandon all software that doesn't work, or isn't customizable, in a way the sales personel states it is?

I find it incredibly fallacious that you seem to think you are in a position to know why any particular chat room operator makes a decision to change software including Wizards of the Coast. Given that companies always have to consider a huge variety of factors that influence their business decisions.

Perhaps they have changed their needs and ROOMS hasn't changed with them? Perhaps another company made a bid and offered a service more like what they wanted? Perhaps the company decided hosting a chat was no longer viable? Perhaps the new Technical Chief Officer prefers using the back end of another chat software?

Including perhaps, just perhaps that the company Digichat is in fact trying to encourage people to use their new software rather than their old, but doesn't want to make bad relations by just dumping the old software?

Yet the endless parade of rats abandoning iChat Rooms doesn't mean that we should take a page from them and start working down a new path to fix as well? No...we should remain with the chat program that the operators of tells us aren't supported because we get a email from a company representive stating they support it.

We should believe a company man none of us deal with over Mel who bends over backwards most of the time for us, to make sure we understand the issues at hands? I'm sorry I shall take Mel's word that iChat is not supported anymore, over just about anyone other than Mel's boss stating Mel was wrong in this instance, and even then I am likely to take Mel's word at greater weight.

Especially with secondary evidance of fewer and fewer iChat rooms, and the ones that remain being heavily modifed iChat rooms (see Raha).

You can PM me for Russell's email address, I believe you owe him an apology.

Right, I owe Russell an apology because I insulted his and his company, being annomyous surfer on the internet, I am sure without it he is slowly and painfully dying.

Oh, and incidently:


I'm touched that you have such regard for dinosaurs like me based purely on how long we've been around, honestly. It's nice to know that you care. Of course, I'm hoping that Wizards has a slightly greater concern since old foggies like me tend to be have a greater disposable income and buy more books, thus contribute more to keeping things like... this chat site, running.

A little respect that all I ask.

So far, to be honest, you haven't earned my respect. Yes you earn respect from me from being conceitious not demanding, from showing an iota of respect for others.

Also, if you feel that the comment doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't, but as you felt the need to respond to it, perhaps...just perhaps some little part of you is feeling bad about the way they have being treating the Community that has given them a forum for their Roleplaying.


Then again, I could be a dog who learned how to type on a keyboard.

 

[Darrius of the Guardians]

Alrighty, while I will continue to read this thread, my point has been brought across, so I am through replying on this thread.

 

[Nevine]

Alright, I am through...my view is clear, my objective is achieved, and thus no more said from me.

Well, since you're done, I'll just make a final rebuttal.

It poorly serves currently, from what I have seen of Mel's posts both here and in the main community thread they are working at getting to function properly for the ISRP as well, hence her irritation at us taking things melodramtically to an extreme and painting devils horns and giving pitch forks to the corporate entity behind this.


Actually we won't I can assure the yearly average will be much lower as for the simple reason of ease of reset for Java, and the fact they can return the Chat server to a joint server (or do you forget the period about two...maybe two and half years ago when every other weekend the chat softwear would go down.


Right, thats why people abadon the site, they dislike the OOC drama so they leave to a smaller communities where there is much greater prejudice in the way things are ran and the OOC drama is much higher, that I can believe. Or are you refering to the people who simply move on from ISRP? Or do you forget the threads from a few years ago, when if memory actually serves I recall a thread from Mel giving a variety of chat choices.

I also recall being one of the few to respond to said thread with my thoughts on the chat services offered.

From what I gather, you seem to have this absolutist view that the new chat will keep people from leaving and that iChat is the main reason people flee in "droves" from ISRP. Yes, threads were made about the chats being down, some were humorous, some were not. You may notice that I don't have a link for "not", that's because the archives for the old boards are gone. If there were any threads where people seriously complained and threatened to leave because of iChat (and if they actually did or not) we can't be sure. All we have to go on is your memory, Darrius, and how it best serves you. Most of your points are based on "as I recall".

You need only go through the current archives to find examples of ISRPer's true sources of discontent. None of which have to do with iChat. There was even a chat seminar on the current state of roleplaying, iChat was not a point of concern.

How did you put it...
Hmmm Oh yes

Or do you claim the comment about not liking things that suck not to vieled insult?

... are you presuming ...

... alter a few things rather than watch the RP slowly die due to fewer people wanting to learn an archaic form of chat.

... now in my mind ...

I am willing to bet ...

... smaller communities where there is much greater prejudice in the way things are ran and the OOC drama is much higher ...

Dear Kettle,

It has come to my attention that you are black.

Sincerely,

Pot

There was nothing veiled, about the pot calling the kettle black. You have heard the phrase before, yes? If not, it means you were being hypocritical and I am sorry you did not understand. I directly addressed you though, there was nothing snide or anything that left you wondering who I was posting to. Perhaps it was my delivery, I apologize for being humorous.

As for the "suck" comment, there isn't anything there either. I have clearly stated my displeasures about the software, I am allowed to generalize after properly elaborating on my views. Now, you may have had something if all I had said was "this sucks" or indirectly addressed Mel (or anyone else) through such a statement. I have been quite direct.

... where as the older crew leaving is basically meaningless, in all honesty. Yes it means for a bit no older patrons to help new patrons aside from the WizOs, but you know what? It also means fewer people who have it in their heads that they are intriniscially important to the site, and refuse all forms of change.

Whereas here, you have made a broad and general statement about any number of people with the intent to offend. This is also known as..

Code of Conduct
trolling or baiting by putting to the screen inflammatory statements designed to elicit a negative response from the community

If you had posted that to me or anyone else specifically, it would be known as...

Code of Conduct
harassment of another specific person (e.g. persistent flaming or continued personal attacks on the boards or "in-character harassment" without prior out-of-character permission.)

It could also be...

Code of Conduct
harassment of another specific person (e.g. persistent flaming or continued personal attacks on the boards or "in-character harassment" without prior out-of-character permission.)

... where as the older crew leaving is basically meaningless, in all honesty. Yes it means for a bit no older patrons to help new patrons aside from the WizOs, but you know what? It also means fewer people who have it in their heads that they are intriniscially important to the site, and refuse all forms of change.

... whinning people who refuse to accept change away.

... the general whinny attitude of multitudes.

If you had been more direct with such statements. So, you calling people whiners is like me saying anyone who agrees with Mel is brown nosing. Which I'm not. I can conduct myself properly, in regards to statements made about others, during debate and discourse.

I hope that clears up how I, and likely anyone else who commented on the statement, saw it.

Yes you earn respect from me from being conceitious not demanding ...

I can't find "conceitious" in the dictionary, but I must assume by the "not demanding" part, you mean concede. So, to have your respect, people must concede to you and your opinions (or that of authority just because they are authority). No thanks.

... showing an iota of respect for others.

Get off your high horse.

<insert almost everything else I've quoted you on in this post>

Now..I would write another humorous letter to you from Mr. Pot, but I don't want to be accused of veiled insults. Therefore, I propose that you, perchance, might want to take your own advice.

... perhaps...just perhaps some little part of you is feeling bad about the way they have being treating the Community that has given them a forum for their Roleplaying.

No, I don't feel bad for expressing my opinion or displeasure.

Edit: I can no spell..hurr..hurr..

 

[Cystuni]

OK... I started this, so I'll try to bring it back to point.

STOP ARGUING! list pros and cons on the software. suggest something that would make you happy with the cons. the threats to leave have all been made, no one has even theatened to do so in over the last 30 or more posts. no one is meaningless and everyone just wants to have fun on the chat. so how can we do this?

and Mel, yes I agree with Anamarice. is there ANYTHING that can be done to eliminate the confirmation e-mail for a while? yes I do realize botting is problem, but if this software is easier to moderate shouldn't yo be able to block them? I know it's more work but please... throw me a bone on this one or recommend some way to make this less painful? I'll love you forever and a tuesday?

 

[Cystuni]

oh one more thing. if someone has a "greener pastures" maybe you should post them to Mel privately? let her take a look at the site see what's good about it and ask our "lovely" new chat providers if they can do something like that?

my post to suggest something about the descriptions. links to a profile page in the boards for each character? yahoo can do it... so can wizards... I think... I hope. nix the link to webpages and what not IN the profiles... but just a spot for descriptions and a picture? that way for those of us with LONG descriptions someone can read it at their leisure, rather than watch it scroll up and out of the window? Just a thought. I DID see an Ichat site with a seperate frame in which you can click on "Whois" and it type in the name. it brings up their description and ONLY their description IN that window. can we do that? even the old JAVA plugin for the ichat rooms had something like that...

 

[shadow of death]

Originally posted by Dragona Nightsky:

I too have to wonder after reading over all the posts just -why- Wizards didn't return the software when it failed to deliver on what it promised. I'll admit, I'm no business guru or techie or anything like that, but if I spend -my- money on something that doesn't delver what it promised, I return it. Why is Wizards not doing the same? Surely there's enough vested interest not only from the standpoint of satifying your own customers but also from a business standpoint of getting your money's worth out of this software you likely have paid exorbitant amounts of money for, is there not?

Why did they not return it indeed is the more important question that needs to be addressed. If you others wish to bandy about your insults and comments upon comments about comments made on other's comments commenting on the comments about the comments......(get the picture?) take it elsewhere. This thread has gone so far off track its rediculous. I for one, and no doubt many others wish to know the answer to Dragona's question!

Any answers? ones that make sense....one way or the other would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[Cystuni]

I just wanted to be the 100th post...