D&D 5E New Conversation: Human Barbarian1/Wizard 2
- Thread starter thalmin
- Start date
Halivar
First Post
The third post in the thread spells it out, I think. He's more interested in the concept and wants crunch that will fit it.
thalmin
Retired game store owner
Actually, I wanted to try a sub-optimal build. In practice, it has been a challenge,but it has worked out quite well. There are some mechanical benefits, such as a lot of hit points and the ability to use a bow. But more important for me as a player, it has been fun.
I agree the best advice is to use backgrounds to model this. With one level of Barbarian, at the cost of being one level behind in Wizarding, you gain:
1. +6 hit points, compared to other wizards.
2. proficiency in light and med armours, OR +3 to AC from thick hide.
3. proficiency in Strength and Constitution saves.
4. proficiency in martial weapons and land mounts (and one extra skill).
5. ability to rage
Of these, 1, 2, and 3 are certainly useful for any Wizard. 4 has limited application, and 5 is functionally useless. So even though you are choosing a build that is counter-intuitive, it is workable.
Of course, someone from a Barbarian tribe does not need to be a "barbarian" in terms of class. Consider the fighter, for example (which fits the story you have described just as well; even if you have gone into a rage [as part of the story] there is no need for the character to have the rage mechanic). With one level of fighter instead, you would have:
1. +4 hit points, compared to other wizards.
2. proficiency in all armours.
3. proficiency in Strength and Constitution saves.
4. proficiency in martial weapons and land mounts (and one extra skill).
5. second wind
6. fighting style (protection, defense, or even -- to run with the theme -- GWF!)
The difference between these two (for the perspective of someone with an initial level who then chooses to become a wizard) is:
-2 hit points (relative), in exchange for heavy armour proficiency, second wind, and a fighting style.
I'd suggest that's going to serve you better long-term, and still fits your concept and your desire to have an initial non-wizard level.
(EDIT: I'm all in favour of making suboptimal builds work.
)
1. +6 hit points, compared to other wizards.
2. proficiency in light and med armours, OR +3 to AC from thick hide.
3. proficiency in Strength and Constitution saves.
4. proficiency in martial weapons and land mounts (and one extra skill).
5. ability to rage
Of these, 1, 2, and 3 are certainly useful for any Wizard. 4 has limited application, and 5 is functionally useless. So even though you are choosing a build that is counter-intuitive, it is workable.
Of course, someone from a Barbarian tribe does not need to be a "barbarian" in terms of class. Consider the fighter, for example (which fits the story you have described just as well; even if you have gone into a rage [as part of the story] there is no need for the character to have the rage mechanic). With one level of fighter instead, you would have:
1. +4 hit points, compared to other wizards.
2. proficiency in all armours.
3. proficiency in Strength and Constitution saves.
4. proficiency in martial weapons and land mounts (and one extra skill).
5. second wind
6. fighting style (protection, defense, or even -- to run with the theme -- GWF!)
The difference between these two (for the perspective of someone with an initial level who then chooses to become a wizard) is:
-2 hit points (relative), in exchange for heavy armour proficiency, second wind, and a fighting style.
I'd suggest that's going to serve you better long-term, and still fits your concept and your desire to have an initial non-wizard level.
(EDIT: I'm all in favour of making suboptimal builds work.
)(I'm intrigued that the replies have basically been, so far, "do something else")
So this is broadly similar to a character I've loved playing in 3e that I'm really looking forward to recreating in 5e eventually. He ended up being a Sorceror, because his backstory is that he went off to train but odd stuff kept happening.
I think you can take this a number of ways and have fun with it. Going on the assumption that you actually *did* adventure for a level of Barbarian, I'd build the character based upon a progression from that. For his first level, he fights as a barbarian - in the front line, trying to lay waste to all about him. However, he's not particularly strong, so when he sees the chance to learn some different tricks he's eager to try them out. I don't see him as adapting his combat style much, though... Take medium armour, say, to get the most from the +2 DEX bonus. Add a shield and a shortsword (since it's light), but leave it sheathed most of the time. Take the spells Shield, Magic Missile, Thunderwave... Cause Fear is a great one as mentioned above. False Life might be tempting.
I'd basically have him still wading into the front lines of combat, but now using magic instead of a sword. The aggressive cantrips make good enough staples - sure, he'll do less damage than he did with the sword, but he'll hit more often. Use Rage as a last resort, if overwhelmed and out of spells. I'd probably try to keep a bit of ferocity to him - preferring close-range spells, specialising as an Evoker and often using "I cast a fireball at my feet" as a tactic (hey, if he can exclude himself from the blast and likes to get into the thick of combat, it works perfectly). Old habits die hard, so I can imagine him roaring battlecries and hurling insults and spite at his foes - working himself up to the edge of Rage, but not quite going over the line. To dip into mechanics again, the Tough feat would be interesting - putting his hit points at the same average as a fighter would really help to keep him going in the front lines. Using False Life regularly during the first round of combat (or before it's expected) would be another thing.
Roleplay-wise, cliched though it is the classic "Seeking to prove himself to the tribe" works really well. I can imagine him returning home one day with powerful magic and a set of Gauntlets of Ogre Power and proceeding to beat the living daylights out of anyone who laughed at him. While setting them on fire.
So this is broadly similar to a character I've loved playing in 3e that I'm really looking forward to recreating in 5e eventually. He ended up being a Sorceror, because his backstory is that he went off to train but odd stuff kept happening.
I think you can take this a number of ways and have fun with it. Going on the assumption that you actually *did* adventure for a level of Barbarian, I'd build the character based upon a progression from that. For his first level, he fights as a barbarian - in the front line, trying to lay waste to all about him. However, he's not particularly strong, so when he sees the chance to learn some different tricks he's eager to try them out. I don't see him as adapting his combat style much, though... Take medium armour, say, to get the most from the +2 DEX bonus. Add a shield and a shortsword (since it's light), but leave it sheathed most of the time. Take the spells Shield, Magic Missile, Thunderwave... Cause Fear is a great one as mentioned above. False Life might be tempting.
I'd basically have him still wading into the front lines of combat, but now using magic instead of a sword. The aggressive cantrips make good enough staples - sure, he'll do less damage than he did with the sword, but he'll hit more often. Use Rage as a last resort, if overwhelmed and out of spells. I'd probably try to keep a bit of ferocity to him - preferring close-range spells, specialising as an Evoker and often using "I cast a fireball at my feet" as a tactic (hey, if he can exclude himself from the blast and likes to get into the thick of combat, it works perfectly). Old habits die hard, so I can imagine him roaring battlecries and hurling insults and spite at his foes - working himself up to the edge of Rage, but not quite going over the line. To dip into mechanics again, the Tough feat would be interesting - putting his hit points at the same average as a fighter would really help to keep him going in the front lines. Using False Life regularly during the first round of combat (or before it's expected) would be another thing.
Roleplay-wise, cliched though it is the classic "Seeking to prove himself to the tribe" works really well. I can imagine him returning home one day with powerful magic and a set of Gauntlets of Ogre Power and proceeding to beat the living daylights out of anyone who laughed at him. While setting them on fire.
I know this is a general snark, but it's hard to advise given the little information we've been given (especially since some of the aspects of the build are secret (post 9) and we've been asked to "tear it apart" (post 1) based only on class and abilities.
I think people are trying to be sincere and helpful here, even as the ground shifts.
