New DDI aps

[Darkthorne]

Ok, either the monster manual is hosed (which sucks because it's the printed book) or the xp's listed in the encounter calcultor is incorrect. It looks ok, but the one I built (excel) I don't have to subscribe to and does the same job. Also tangent (but works with my point) which I apologize in advance for, while I am the only one in my main gaming group that digs 4E the most, I am SERIOUSLY getting tired of the extremely lame convert your character column. At first it was ok some of them did make sense and only seemed to slightly stretch the original character concept, the rest are falling under "Are you kidding me!?!?" category. Why are they bother making new classes (ie splat books) if the columns are worth the time spent writing them, followed by someone else reading them? I understand some things are still in the works but don't push out garbage just to have stuff there to fill the space. While I used to hit their site waiting for each update, now I just see a rehash of what was done a week or two before. Also I like how the powers and the new stat blocks are done for the monsters, but now I have seen some glimpses of the Forgotten Realms excerpts and it seems like they are trying to gear their design to people w/ ADD (Not trying to slam anyone w/ ADD). Nothing I am seeing recently is drawing me in. I truly hope I am wrong, but I have yet to see what they are going to offer that is WORTH paying any subscription for.

 

[ObsidianCrane]

What xp errors have you noticed?

At $5 a month the digital mags are worth iit to me so I will likely subscribe. At that point anything else is a nicety.

For the compendium to be useful it needs to be updated with Dragon abnd Dungeon content much faster, and it needs to have better accessibility to all the rules in the PHB.

 

[doctorhook]

I like the new tools. I wouldn't say these are about to revolutionize anything I do at my table, but they are firmly "neato". Like food-processing accessories.

I like that there's monsters in the Encounter Builder from sources other than the MM. (For example, I believe all the monsters from Keep on the Shadowfell are listed, including Irontooth, Hobgoblin Torturer, and the Blue Slime, all of which don't appear in the MM.) Would be better if the Encounter Builder listed each monster's source publication in some fashion though.

So far, it's worth the $5, if not for these tools, then certainly for the magazines. (As long as they keep trying to improve their editting!)

 

[withak]

Meh, I'll just use my own.

 

[Darkthorne]

So far just the minions: Zombie Rotter, Human Rabble, Kruthik Hatchling, Hobgoblin Grunt

 

[Kzach]

The more I think about it the more disappointed I am with this offering.

Have a bit of a think about this for a minute.

If you look online, there are a ton of 3.x digital offerings, a lot of them free, that do the same job or better. And those are starting to come out for 4e as well. Hell, look in the 4e fan creations forum and you'll find better than this crap.

For something supposedly 'professionally' created, after a year's worth of work and money poured into it, with the expectation that people pay for the offering, I expect a helluva lot better than what I can get for free elsewhere.

The very least I expected from an encounter 'builder' was some flexibility. And the output is just plain text? Come on. There should at least be an option to output as a table, formulated like the monster manual entries. I mean, really, *I* could code that and I know jack about web-programming.

And the ability score generator? Is that all it does? Calculate something I can do in my HEAD? There are already free online CHARACTER generators.

I have to say that unless the game table is "OMG BLOW MY MIND FREAKING AWESOME MUST HAVE OMG!" then my interest in DDI will be over and done with completely.

 

[doctorhook]

The more I think about it the more disappointed I am with this offering.

Have a bit of a think about this for a minute.

If you look online, there are a ton of 3.x digital offerings, a lot of them free, that do the same job or better. And those are starting to come out for 4e as well. Hell, look in the 4e fan creations forum and you'll find better than this crap.

For something supposedly 'professionally' created, after a year's worth of work and money poured into it, with the expectation that people pay for the offering, I expect a helluva lot better than what I can get for free elsewhere.

The very least I expected from an encounter 'builder' was some flexibility. And the output is just plain text? Come on. There should at least be an option to output as a table, formulated like the monster manual entries. I mean, really, *I* could code that and I know jack about web-programming.

And the ability score generator? Is that all it does? Calculate something I can do in my HEAD? There are already free online CHARACTER generators.

I have to say that unless the game table is "OMG BLOW MY MIND FREAKING AWESOME MUST HAVE OMG!" then my interest in DDI will be over and done with completely.

Honestly, Kzach, I don't think that you, me, or anyone else really believes that these particular tools are what have taken so much time and money to develop.

These are simple novelties, included for the sake of their potential utility, and not with intent to "wow" anyone. I doubt that either of these utilities took more than a few workdays for a single programmer, and I doubt anyone from WotC is going to tell you otherwise. Let's face it, we all know that the big utilities, (the Character Builder, Character Visualizer, and especially the Game Table), are where DDI's time and money are probably being spent.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this Ability Generator and Encounter Builder are "a year's worth of work and money", when it's clear that aren't. We should reserve these types of comments for the Game Table.

 

[Felon]

What xp errors have you noticed?

Well, I tried building an encounter and wound up with level 11 ghoul minions when they're actually level 13 in the book. OTOH, I couldn't get the vampire minions to show up at all, and I couldn't get the Edeilon to show up as either a leader or controller.

 

[Felon]

These are simple novelties, included for the sake of their potential utility, and not with intent to "wow" anyone. I doubt that either of these utilities took more than a few workdays for a single programmer, and I doubt anyone from WotC is going to tell you otherwise.

Take a good look at this page: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insidernews/20080806

In particular, note the last two or three paragrraphs. They are indeed saying that what they are currently offering is worth paying for. When you provide something for free, nobody has to be impressed. When you start charging money for a service, then it's "wow me" time.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this Ability Generator and Encounter Builder are "a year's worth of work and money", when it's clear that aren't. We should reserve these types of comments for the Game Table.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking: as stated in that link I just gave you, the game table is not only not ready, but it's not even close to being ready. If one's going to comment on the results of a year's worth of time and money, then you have to comment on what has actually been delivered, which is not much. WotC rushed forward with 4e. None of us made them do it. They imposed the timetable, and now they want to dismiss the notion that they set any deadlines.

You may or may not feel like WotC deserves an indefinite postponement of criticisum until they can produce a polished and complete 4th edition, but other folks seem to think that it's time to stand and deliver.

 

[doctorhook]

Take a good look at this page: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insidernews/20080806

In particular, note the last two or three paragrraphs. They are indeed saying that what they are currently offering is worth paying for. When you provide something for free, nobody has to be impressed. When you start charging money for a service, then it's "wow me" time.

This argument seems fair.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking: as stated in that link I just gave you, the game table is not only not ready, but it's not even close to being ready. If one's going to comment on the results of a year's worth of time and money, then you have to comment on what has actually been delivered, which is not much.

I agree with you up to this point.

WotC rushed forward with 4e. None of us made them do it. They imposed the timetable, and now they want to dismiss the notion that they set any deadlines.

You may or may not feel like WotC deserves an indefinite postponement of criticisum until they can produce a polished and complete 4th edition, but other folks seem to think that it's time to stand and deliver.

As far as I know, we're discussing DDI, not 4E. I realize DDI materials are to be considered "core" in 4E, but I don't buy the notion that 4E is "incomplete". Buy yourself a copy of the 4E PH, MM, and DMG, and you've got a complete, functional, and perfectly enjoyable game. Hence, I disagree that the "completion" of 4E is at all relevant to this discussion.

I'm not suggesting no one criticize WotC, I'm suggesting they keep their criticisms fair. In my own mind, DDI's web content is worth it even without these small "Bonus Tools"; to myself and some number of others, access to Dragon and Dungeon is worth $5/month. Furthermore, WotC is not yet charging anyone for any of the web content, so to us consumers, the value per dollar we've spent to access this material is substantial.

Once WotC starts asking me for money for DDI, I'll reevaluate my position on this matter.