New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Stormtalon]

See, I don't concede that at all. A paladin is and always has been more than just some guy with a sword who's god really, really wants him to kill things.

But at the same time, the paladin has always had little to no ability to handle enemies at range. This is really no different.

 

[LostSoul]

The first actual crunch I see from 4E, and it has to be an awful gamist design.

What about this is poor gamist design? It seems like good gamist design, from what little we have seen.

 

[The Little Raven]

Exactly. 3rd edition was bad enough. Now WOTC feels empowered to go whole hog and p**s all over the campaign world of any DM who doesn't want to go along with an over-the-top wire-fu idea of fantasy.

God forbid Wizards actually do what they want with something they spent millions of dollars on to save from a company that was going to take it to it's grave.

 

[The Little Raven]

Ugh. More per encounter abilities.

Yeah! Ugh! Damn them for setting up situations in which you won't say "Well, time to pull out the old crossbow and waste a bolt each turn, since my wizard is completely out of spells per day and has no other abilities to aid in any way, shape, or form."

 

[Shazman]

I don't like the mechanics of how these smites work. I hit you, so my friend's sucking gut wound immediately heals up. What? This is too ridiculous for me to stomach. I think I'll pass on 4th edition.

 

[BryonD]

People can't accept a spell-casting holy warrior with a single prayer that says both "Lord, aid me in smiting my foes, and guard my friends against harm"?

Really?

I'm not sure how an oversimplification of the issue and misrepresentation of the complaint is going to change anyone's mind.

 

[Sammael]

What about this is poor gamist design? It seems like good gamist design, from what little we have seen.

It's very good gamist design. Gamists are probably very pleased, because:

(1) It reinforces the notion that D&D is a game, and verisimilitude be damned
(2) It allows a character to do two things at the same time, thus increasing his metagame potential
(3) Smites are per-encounter, so a paladin can pretty much smite all day long; this is good because it keeps the game going
(4) It provides a reward even in case the smite fails (gods forbid that characters should ever fail at anything), so the player will not feel completely cheated when he uses up his smite for the encounter

Before I get accused of simulationism, I would like to point out that I like to run campaigns which provide a nice balance between the "game" and "simulation" aspects. For instance, I'd be perfectly fine with point (4) above if smite were a limited resource (like it is in 3.x). But when it's effectively unlimited, and the designers are telling me to reward a player for even attempting to use his pretty-much unlimited resource, then I really cannot help but hate the notion.

 

[fuindordm]

See, I don't concede that at all. A paladin is and always has been more than just some guy with a sword who's god really, really wants him to kill things.

Seconded.

And, darnit, the way a power is described really does count. I felt a great relief when 3e chucked "spell memorization" for "spell preparation". One little word, and the whole feeling of the setting can change. (Note also that spell preparation led to a small but very significant boost to the wizard's power: the ability to prepare some spells later in the day.)

In the same way, I would be much happier to see the "extras" on the smite described as coming before the smite, and usable even without an attack. For example:

"A paladin can call on divine power to aid her allies, and has learned to channel some of that power into a melee attack at the same time. Lacking the scholarship of a cleric, their selection of effects is much more limited--but that attack sure hurts when it lands."

It occurs to me that the "smite tree" looks a bit like they took the cleric's pile of turning-based feats and make a core class ability out of them.

Ben

 

[Bishmon]

But at the same time, the paladin has always had little to no ability to handle enemies at range. This is really no different.

Very true. He still can't really handle things at range. But what's different is now that inability to handle things at range will in some way affect his ability to protect and/or heal his allies, because he now has protection and healing abilities that are inextricably linked to attacking enemies in melee, and that just doesn't make sense to a number of people.

 

[Abstraction]

I don't like the mechanics of how these smites work. I hit you, so my friend's sucking gut wound immediately heals up. What? This is too ridiculous for me to stomach. I think I'll pass on 4th edition.

The lack of imagination in this camp simply apalls me. How about, I call upon my god and am rewarded for steadfast loyalty by the power of His twin causes for retribution against evildoers and his mercy for the good and steadfast. My right hand is infused with Wrath and my left with Love and heart is filled with Justice.

In other words, I hit this guy and that guy gets healed.