New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Njall]

I'm not looking at this as realistic or not realistic. I realize I'm playing a game.

That said, there are certain things I just don't want to see combined. Healing allies and damaging others with a melee attack is one of them. Missing the to hit roll and still causing damage is another. To me, it doesn't flow well together and it feels munchkin.

Besides, I played a game system where smite was a spell. That spell did one thing: it attempted to kill my enemy with large amounts of damage.

Uhm, so, as you said earlier, you'd be ok if it healed in a radius, but you're not ok if it only heals one ally? It's exactly the same game mechanic, assuming we're talking game mechanics here, and it's even more powerful.
If it's not flavor that bothers you, and you'd be fine with the smite healing in a radius ( same mechanic...), then what's the matter?
Care to explain why "I smite my opponent and heal Joe the mage, here" is more munchkin than "I smite my opponents and heal the entire party" (mechanically, I mean...)?

 

[Skaven_13]

Actually, I think the whole Smite is a spell. Since the attack seems to be based on Charisma, instead of Strength, you are casting a spell. The spell has two effects - dealing damage and healing/protecting/binding someone else.

You know, one good thing about this discussion is that it actually got me to read the article (which, with the new online format, has not happened that often). What did I get from this? I hate the idea of charisma instead of strength for a melee attack.

Just one more thing.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You know, one good thing about this discussion is that it actually got me to read the article (which, with the new online format, has not happened that often). What did I get from this? I hate the idea of charisma instead of strength for a melee attack.

Just one more thing.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Montague68]

I fully agree with Celtavian. It's as if the designers have spent their time hanging out on the WoW paladin boards looking for ideas.

It's not the game mechanics that have players flocking to MMORPG's. It's the convenience of sitting down at your computer (pantsless, if you wish) and hanging out with friends while you slay baddies over and over and over. Kill, loot, ding, gratz. It's instant gratification.

The design with this mechanic screams "group friendly! Melee support!". What it doesn't do is scream "Paladin!". A paladin is not some dude in plate whose sole purpose in life is to make other like-minded folks who happen to be within 40 feet of him more powerful. He is a holy warrior, infused with power by his god to wage war on evil and defend the faith. However, instead of granting his holy warriors the ability to strike down the wicked, Torm is granting them the ability to more easily find groups. Huzzah...

After 22 years, I'm afraid I'm going to have to move on from D&D and stay with Castles & Crusades.

 

[Skaven_13]

Uhm, so, as you said earlier, you'd be ok if it healed in a radius, but you're not ok if it only heals one ally? It's exactly the same game mechanic, assuming we're talking game mechanics here, and it's even more powerful.
If it's not flavor that bothers you, and you'd be fine with the smite healing in a radius ( same mechanic...), then what's the matter?
Care to explain why "I smite my opponent and heal Joe the mage, here" is more munchkin than "I smite my opponents and heal the entire party" (mechanically, I mean...)?

Yes, that was the one exception I could see, and here is why: it doesn't discern between my enemies and my allies. If my party is around me, then more than likely, so is the enemy. Even if the radius is something small as 5ft. It was mainly in reply to those who say the divine power "bleeds" into another effect. If the paladin is going to bleed power, then best to burst it from his attack.

Do I like this mechanic? Not really, but I could accept it better than "and heal Joe the mage, who doesn't worship you, has never done anything to further your cause, but he's my ally, which should count for something, and I'm asking really, really nicely (cause I have high charisma)".

What would I be happy with and still include healing? The paladin smites the enemy, and receives personal healing from his god.

 

[Counterspin]

So we've moved on to the point where something doesn't even have to be part in a videogame to be too videogamey! Gearjammer, you actually have a perfectly reasonable point about how you don't like the flavor of the new smites. If you'd just cut the meaningless "Oh noes video games" trash out, it would be perfectly reasonable. Though I'd still be confused by the fact you don't see the Paladin as a leader of men, cause I certainly do.

 

[Montague68]

Though I'd still be confused by the fact you don't see the Paladin as a leader of men, cause I certainly do.

Explain to me why a paladin needs to buff party members in order to be considered a leader.

 

[Counterspin]

Because otherwise his leadership is hollow, because it has zero mechanical effect on his followers. They would be just as well led by a sheep in heavy armor.

 

[Skaven_13]

Sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem. Really. I was amazed I got through the whole article. Usually they bore me around the second paragraph, then I'm off to somewhere else.

But these versions of smite feel very much of bo9s, and I wasn't impressed with a lot of the content in that book. I'm not going to say 3.x was fine the way it was, cause it needed work, and some of the news of 4e has been promising, but to me, this isn't one of them.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Do I like this mechanic? Not really, but I could accept it better than "and heal Joe the mage, who doesn't worship you, has never done anything to further your cause, but he's my ally, which should count for something, and I'm asking really, really nicely (cause I have high charisma)".

So, clerics should only be able to cast spells on themselves and those of the same faith as well?

For D&D to work, you have to assume the gods give their imbued followers some discretion on how to use their power.