New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Majoru Oakheart]

I thought we were assured that they tried and discarded MMO-style aggro mechanics for Defenders? That 27th level smite sounds like aggro to me.

No, aggro is the system where everything you do racks up "aggro points" and the enemy attacks the person with the most aggro points and will never attack anyone else. And tank types generally have abilities with increase their aggro artificially in order to stay at the top of the list, while everyone else has to be careful not to use their biggest attacks too often because it might put their aggro over the tanks and they'll die.

This is instead a system where certain classes give monsters a particular reason to attack only them without preventing them from attacking others.

I'm guessing line of effect won't matter for melee attacks, probably only for ranged attacks. Even if it is both, however, it's still only for one round.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I thought we were assured that they tried and discarded MMO-style aggro mechanics for Defenders? That 27th level smite sounds like aggro to me.

As far as I understand aggro, the smiting ability mentioned in the article isn't it - it's a single ability that uses a similar mechanic.

A full aggro mechanic would mean that every character who affected any monster would have an aggro score against that monster, and the DM would have to track each aggro score for each monster to determine who it would attack next round - which would be a complete nightmare. D&D doesn't need this, as we have a DM to decide upon the monsters tactics.

 

[OakwoodDM]

I thought we were assured that they tried and discarded MMO-style aggro mechanics for Defenders? That 27th level smite sounds like aggro to me.

Really? Sounds nothing like it to me.

There's a huge difference between "This ability prevents the target from targetting anyone but you" and "Monsters attack people depending on (in this order): Who has done them the most damage; who has done their friends the most damage; who is healing the party the most; who was the last person to target them. In all these cases, the damage( & healing) is accumulated for the last 5 rounds."

The first is what this smite does. The second is an aggro mechanic.

(Disclaimer: This is my made up version of an aggro mechanic based on my limited understanding of them. I don't expect it to be an accurate representation of any aggro mechanic from any computer game past or present!)

Edit: three posts at the same time saying essentially the same thing!

 

[Bagpuss]

I thought we were assured that they tried and discarded MMO-style aggro mechanics for Defenders? That 27th level smite sounds like aggro to me.

They said they discarded MMO-style aggro (ie: where it tends to be tracked by the amount of damage you can do, and would involve a lot of bookkeeping.).

 

[Driddle]

I read elsewhere that they're introducing three kinds of hit-point regenerative abilities as well: a Protein-Laden Recovery (something involving steak and lobster), a Feather-Bed Recovery (requires the PC assume a horizontal position), and a Medicinal Recovery (they're still experimenting with health plan rules).

It's quite exciting to see such creative new design directions. The only way this could get even better is if they could incorporate a joystick and button combinations. ... "Tiramisu Smite" = D,D,U+Punch!

 

[Njall]

My personal problem with this is that one is a clear area attack that spreads its damage over the entire area, the other is an attack against one singular target, as such it is very locally restricted damage. If you had given that fighter some area attack weapon (flame thrower, greek-oil grenade, blackpoder bomb), I'd have less problems with it.
Conversely, if a ray attack misses, I'd have as much problems with the spell still doing some damage to its intended target.
In the light of spell attack rolls, I'd rather have them institute the "miss" on a failed attack roll more broadly for combat spells as well to make them equal to a failed weapon attack roll. But that's just me.
And yeah, with older editions, spells were different enough from weapon attacks in combat, in applicability, effect, and frequency, to warrant a different handling. If spell attacks are now closer to weapon attacks in 4E, they should be handled pretty much similarly as well.

Well, compare it to "whirlwind attack", in its SWSE incarnation: it's a melee attack, and it's also an area attack, so it deals half damage on a missed hit.
If there's only one oppoent in range, it works along the lines of this power.
Furthermore, the power was said to be a "spear power", IIRC...thus, you can assume the fighter is spinning the haft in the defender's square, thus assuring he'll at least hit his opponent, even though he'll only score a glancing blow.
But if it's just a matter of personal taste, I won't argue any further

 

[Nebulous]

Except if "base weapon damage" includes a level dependent bonus of some sort.

What if they go the SW Saga route: Add 1/2 your level in damage to weapons? In which case that paladin at 27th level would be adding an extra +13 points.

 

[Njall]

I read elsewhere that they're introducing three kinds of hit-point regenerative abilities as well: a Protein-Laden Recovery (something involving steak and lobster), a Feather-Bed Recovery (requires the PC assume a horizontal position), and a Medicinal Recovery (they're still experimenting with health plan rules).

It's quite exciting to see such creative new design directions. The only way this could get even better is if they could incorporate a joystick and button combinations. ... "Tiramisu Smite" = D,D,U+Punch!

You know, it's weird how people keep associating 4e and video games, when the only games where you're assumed to gain power through gear more than experience that I can remember having played are WoW and 3e, and the first impression my dm had when 3e was released was that it was so modular it would've been easy to make a videogame out of it, adding feats ( and, eventually, prestige classes ) with expansions.
To each one his own, I guess?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Furthermore, the power was said to be a "spear power", IIRC...thus, you can assume the fighter is spinning the haft in the defender's square, thus assuring he'll at least hit his opponent, even though he'll only score a glancing blow.

Reminds me of the classic scene from Moria where the troll spears Frodo. Frodo is protected by his mithril shirt, so he isn't spitted, but he still took enough damage from the blow to put him out of the fight.

(note, I'm not saying this is the D&D representation of that fight. I'm perfectly aware that there are lots of different ways of 'flavour texting' that fight. I'm just using it as a visual that fits)

Cheers

 

[Wormwood]

I think this description might be the final nail in the coffin for the classic D&D magical schools. There is no unneccesary <Conjuration> tag next to the healing descriptor, nor anywhere else.

Thuis things I'm doing right now?

Yeah, that's the dance of joy.