New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Wormwood]

I thought we were assured that they tried and discarded MMO-style aggro mechanics for Defenders? That 27th level smite sounds like aggro to me.

Sounds like a one-round compulsion effect to me.

 

[ShinRyuuBR]

What if they go the SW Saga route: Add 1/2 your level in damage to weapons? In which case that paladin at 27th level would be adding an extra +13 points.

It seems pretty obvious that is the case. It seems the guy from Hungary was right, and so was the spined devil stats: ability modifiers now are always (or mostly) used with +1/2 lvl added. This would include Defenses (plus 10), attack rolls (including "Charisma attacks"), damage rolls, skill checks and so on. As the guy said, every class will use the progression of +1/2 lvl for everything, and their abilities and powers will make the difference.

 

[TerraDave]

They are doing well with the actual crunch, and I like this new guys writting. Even the names here where fine.

One thing: I am not sure they are simplifying things. They are simplifying some things, but if a paladin (and everyone else) does have a bag of these in play, all doing different kinds of buffs and effects, it may not be that simple.

But I am liking it.

 

[BartD]

It seems pretty obvious that is the case. It seems the guy from Hungary was right, and so was the spined devil stats: ability modifiers now are always (or mostly) used with +1/2 lvl added. This would include Defenses (plus 10), attack rolls (including "Charisma attacks"), damage rolls, skill checks and so on. As the guy said, every class will use the progression of +1/2 lvl for everything, and their abilities and powers will make the difference.

I have considered the same thing (everything increases by +1 per 2 levels) and think it is mostly brilliant.

The only concern I really have is what to do with the con modifier for hitpoints and to a lesser degree the int modifier to skills. If hitpoints is affected by con as in 3e, it will give everyone 50 extra hitpoints at level 10, 200 at level 20 and 450 at level 30, which will come to dominate hit point totals unless something else is changed to modify it. While it would certainly be simple to disregard the increases for hitpoints and skills, it would also make it less neat.

 

[Voss]

Only some things are increasing that way. Hit points will not be one of them.

 

[Wormwood]

As the guy said, every class will use the progression of +1/2 lvl for everything, and their abilities and powers will make the difference.

The more I think about this change . . . the more I really like it.

 

[Hussar]

On the "Consolation Prize" sub-topic.

The point to remember is that a single die roll for attack is not the only attack a character is making in a round. Even in a 6 second round, the PC is assumed to be doing more than swinging his sword once. Six seconds is a fairly long time, so, it's not terribly hard to imagine that you are making an area of effect attack on a 5 foot area with a weapon as you duck, jive, swing and feint, gaining one actual attack in that round (or more with iteratives).

Since I believe that iterative attacks have been removed (I think I read that), it makes more sense that you would have collateral effects to actions unless you reduce the time frame even further than a 6 second round.

 

[Clavis]

One word for the new Paladin smites: Ridiculous.

How does hitting an enemy give your friends better armor? In what legend or myth did this happen? When did Roland (the legendary model for the Paladin class) hit someone in a way that healed his friends? And "Safeguared Smite"? It sounds like a character in a 1950s schoolhouse filmstrip.

Apparently, in 4th ed. the DM doesn't just have to keep track of the rules exceptions created by one or two spellcasters, but has to deal with every party member creating multiple rules exceptions multiple times in combat. This is "easier DMing"? They've cut down on the "Christmas tree" effect with magic items alright - by building the magic items right into the classes! Just what are they smoking in Seattle?

I wish WOTC would stop calling the game they're making a 4th edition of D&D. Maybe they could try something more appropriate, like Golden Hyper Dragon Warrior Defenders: The Game Of Fantasy Races Who Live In A Grid of Squares And Therefore Only Move In Straight Lines.

 

[Goken100]

No, aggro is the system where everything you do racks up "aggro points" and the enemy attacks the person with the most aggro points and will never attack anyone else. And tank types generally have abilities with increase their aggro artificially in order to stay at the top of the list, while everyone else has to be careful not to use their biggest attacks too often because it might put their aggro over the tanks and they'll die.

This is instead a system where certain classes give monsters a particular reason to attack only them without preventing them from attacking others.

I'm guessing line of effect won't matter for melee attacks, probably only for ranged attacks. Even if it is both, however, it's still only for one round.

Okay, thanks, now I've got it. I R happys with 4E (on this issue...).

 

[Stormtalon]

It's not giving the allies better ARMOR per se. Look at it this way; it's a Charisma-based ability -- that means it's powered by the Paladin's own force of personality. As a non-fantasy analogy, think of one of the final sequences in Aliens.

Ripley coming out in the power loader and laying into the Queen with her cry of "Get away from her you b****!" -- THAT's the sort of thing a Safeguard Smite does. It draws an enemy's attention away from a particular target just long enough to make it less likely to get ahold of 'em.

Mechanically, it could be done as either a penalty to the enemy's attack roll OR as a bonus to AC; since it only affects attacks against a single individual, the AC bonus is the right way to go.