New Divine spell system

[Storyteller01]

I was never sure as to why a divine spellcaster would have to memorize their spells ahead of time. Classic examples in ficition and religion show that miracles were done at the spur of the moment (unless you believe that God knows all, then he had it planned WELL ahead of time). I deviced this system to help create this feel. Tell me what you think:

Instead of memorizing spells, the divine caster would make a will check of 10 + the spell level. this signafies the follower calling on their god (and a specific spell). A failed save means the spell didn't go off, and the spell slot IS NOT lost. Most divine spell casters have rather high will saves, and those who do not can't cast their spell until their will saves ARE rather high anyway.

A DM can always come up with a good reason why the spell may have failed.

Granted abilities and Domain Spells do not require a save to cast/use.

 

[Vrecknidj]

First, you shouldn't use saves as checks. (There's a good explanation of this in the DMG.) Instead, if you were to use such a system, a Wisdom check would probably be better. But, you might also consider a Spellcraft or Knowledge (religion) check, so that the player can get better at this as he progresses in levels.

That said, this probably isn't a good idea anyway, unless the entire campaign has a different feel than the default setting, and unless there's no problem with the effect this will have on other spellcasting classes.

However, it's always possible to create a new class, one that uses something like the technique you've described, but has a much smaller spell list.

Dave

 

[JimAde]

I think what you really want is a level check, modified by Wisdom. Similar to the way Dispel Magic works.

1d20 + Caster Level + Wisdom Modifier (+ Maybe 1 or 2 if it's a domain spell?)

DC = 10 + (Spell Level * 2).

And this should still use up a "spells per day" slot, of course. That prevents
1st level Clerics asking for miracle which, by this system, they could get by rolling a 17 or so...

You double the spell level so the cleric with no Wisdom bonus has a 50% chance of casting the highest level spell he can cast.

This is an interesting idea, bug would require a LOT of play-testing. A cleric would get access to ALL the cleric spells (unlike a sorcerer) but could never really rely on being able to cast them.

 

[Storyteller01]

This is a campaign specific rule, but I've a hard time seeing how it will effect other arcane spellcasters (their systems don't change).

Planned on keeping the spell slots (can't have clerics casting everything now)

I also enforce the restrictions on spells (good can't cast evil spells, etc.)

I was thinking of a Level check, but that would mean a 20th level Cleric (+20 to a roll) would have no problems casting a 9th level spell. They are supposed to be the pinnacle of divine intervention, something only the clerics with the greatest faith can cast. I have the same problem with saves (for clerics)

 

[reanjr]

I was never sure as to why a divine spellcaster would have to memorize their spells ahead of time. Classic examples in ficition and religion show that miracles were done at the spur of the moment (unless you believe that God knows all, then he had it planned WELL ahead of time). I deviced this system to help create this feel. Tell me what you think:

Instead of memorizing spells, the divine caster would make a will check of 10 + the spell level. this signafies the follower calling on their god (and a specific spell). A failed save means the spell didn't go off, and the spell slot IS NOT lost. Most divine spell casters have rather high will saves, and those who do not can't cast their spell until their will saves ARE rather high anyway.

A DM can always come up with a good reason why the spell may have failed.

Granted abilities and Domain Spells do not require a save to cast/use.

I've thought about this and created perhaps a dozen different divine casting systems.

I finally came to a realization, though, about the examples in fiction. The casters who work these miracles in fiction usually stick to one type of spell (domain). Due to this fact and the reasons of simplicity and balance (I have playtested all versions of my divine casting), I came up with this:

Divine casters memorize spells, but always may swap out memorized spells for domain spells. They no longer get to swap out spells for cure spells (unless they have the healing domain).

If you believe the clerics still should have a few more options, then let the clerics have 4 domains, only one of which (their choice) they gain the granted domain power.

This system works extremely well in-game and makes D&D clerics close to fictional miracle-workers.

I personally like the 2e idea of the DM assigning the clerics memorized spells, but it is really unwieldly.

 

[JimAde]

This is a campaign specific rule, but I've a hard time seeing how it will effect other arcane spellcasters (their systems don't change).

Planned on keeping the spell slots (can't have clerics casting everything now)

I also enforce the restrictions on spells (good can't cast evil spells, etc.)

I was thinking of a Level check, but that would mean a 20th level Cleric (+20 to a roll) would have no problems casting a 9th level spell. They are supposed to be the pinnacle of divine intervention, something only the clerics with the greatest faith can cast. I have the same problem with saves (for clerics)

I tried to account for this by doubling the spell level. So a 9th level spell would have a DC of 28 (10 + (9 * 2)). That's still pretty easy for a 20th level caster, who will probably have a very high stat modifier. You could tweak it somehow, or not allow a stat modifier.

I really like reanjr's idea of allowing a free swap-out for domain spells. Especially if you allow several domains as he suggested. Nice and flexible, but almost automatically balanced. Very cool.

 

[Horoku]

You could always make the Cleric work like a Sorceror, but he'd be really, really broken unless you made him learn spells like a Sorc, too. I like reanjr's idea.

 

[Storyteller01]

FFG published a cleric that spontaneously casts spells without memorization or learning spells. They called it a faith caster. Basically, take the cleric and 1) give him poor attack progression, 2) Give him a d6 hit die, 3) take away the ability to turn undead. Spontaneous healing isn't mentioned, but all their spells are cast this way.

The usual alignment and spell restrictions apply.

 

[reanjr]

You could always make the Cleric work like a Sorceror, but he'd be really, really broken unless you made him learn spells like a Sorc, too. I like reanjr's idea.

Dragonlance (and now Complete Divine) has this exactly. For Dragonlance, it serves a story purpose to have both kinds, but you could easily just use the spontaneous version.

I like my idea, too... go figure...

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

A good roll to use is d20 + 1/2 (cleric level) + Wis mod vs. 10 + spell level. Maximum spell levels increase at approximately the rate of 1/2(cleric level), so high-level clerics won't find it too easy to cast their highest-level spells.

The Spectrum Rider