D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

[The Mirrorball Man]

Um, why and how? Does having Dungeon Master being the title for the person who runs the game bar anyone from the game? I also think that the Monster Manual did a good job at defining what "monster" means in 5e.

The same could be said of the word "race", that many people here find problematic. If we want to get rid of one of them because of the connotations and the potential misuse if the word, it would be absurd to keep the other.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

You don't think so what? That flavor is a matter of opinion, or that I, and others, like some of the changes that have been discussed?

As I said, bad flavor is fine with me. I just want to see flavor (as opposed to blandness). What are some of the flavorful suggestions made to promote inclusivity? Maybe I missed them.

Edit: I remember seeing some ideas to remove the word "race". Some of them were good. What else?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

The same could be said of the word "race", that many people here find problematic. If we want to get rid of one of them because of the connotations and the potential misuse if the word, it would be absurd to keep the other.

Are there negative connotations of "Dungeon Master"? Race is problematic as a term in 5e. If the "Master" part of it is considered problematic (someone mentioned because of slavery) then maybe it should be considered for changing.

"Master" as a word may have been used in slavery for the person who owns the slaves, but that isn't a compelling argument for me to change it. Master has many different meanings, is used mainly as a descriptor of someone who is an expert at a certain skill-set in D&D, and I don't think we should change it.

Maybe you can try to convince me otherwise?

 

[jasper]

1.....The whole culture of munchkin min-maxers and those who have a personal favorite character build and expect to be catered to and be superior to the rest of the party is just too strong within the D&D community.
...
2......- and those 50+ year olds who are hostile to anyone playing any character who is not precisely like a character who was a featured protagonist in Lord of the Rings.
.......
3......And all those 55+-year old people can drag the whole D&D name with them into the sea and drown it as they all die away.
....
4......Maybe a new game entirely needs to replace D&D.

1. That is the idea I am getting from people who want to Abandon Racial Stats Bonuses. and/or change the game.
2. OKay. Lord of Rings copy cat PCs have always been an on again off again problem depending on how popular the cartoon/books/movies and it clones were. Not the age of the gamers.
3. I feel better.
4. Or maybe some people who want to change the game by coping another system should just play that other system.

 

[Umbran]

2. OKay. Lord of Rings copy cat PCs have always been an on again off again problem...

There's a logical failure in "we want to build a game to allow folks to play what they want," alongside, "a character that is close to one of the strongest influences on the game is a problem."

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Or maybe some people who want to change the game by coping another system should just play that other system.

Has anyone suggested copying another system? Also, thank you for being polite enough and inclusive enough to say, "Get out of my game!" to the people who want it to change for the betterment of the game, in their opinions.

 

[Remathilis]

Are there negative connotations of "Dungeon Master"? Race is problematic as a term in 5e. If the "Master" part of it is considered problematic (someone mentioned because of slavery) then maybe it should be considered for changing.

"Master" as a word may have been used in slavery for the person who owns the slaves, but that isn't a compelling argument for me to change it. Master has many different meanings, is used mainly as a descriptor of someone who is an expert at a certain skill-set in D&D, and I don't think we should change it.

Maybe you can try to convince me otherwise?

Some realtors no longer using "master" to describe bedrooms and bathrooms

Other industries are also removing the word "master" from their vocabularies, as it has roots in racism

www.cbsnews.com

There is some prescident for removing the world from titles. Not saying its necessarily good, but it exists in the world...

 

[Argyle King]

Why would they be functionally identical? Dwarves would still have Poison Resistance, Elves would have Trance, etc. It would only be the ASIs that are more freely moved around, and this would promote more character freedom when they make their characters.

You have a point. Though, I would say that leads to other questions.

If stating that the average [insert species] is stronger/faster/whatever than [second species] as a product of their morphology and natural traits is considered bad form, would the same not also hold true for other traits? How that is answered may not be a binary yes/no and may lead to changing which mechanics the game uses to emulate fiction. I would be okay with that, but it would require further discussion concerning how and what is modeled by the game.

Also, would those traits be balanced against each other? In a vacuum, I would be inclined to say that immunity to magical sleep and resistance to poison are not on equal footing in terms of value. In theory, the floating ability scores would mean more freedom, but would that weigh out in practice if one choice is presented as obviously better and of objectively more value than others?

The answer may become to allow for some method of "purchasing" racial abilities (and this is already somewhat reflected in the form of racial feats). But, at that point, is the game still D&D or would you be better off playing a system (such as something like GURPS) which is built around the concept of point buy and building characters that way?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

If stating that the average [insert species] is stronger/faster/whatever than [second species] as a product of their morphology and natural traits is considered bad form, would the same not also hold true for other traits? How that is answered may not be a binary yes/no and may lead to changing which mechanics the game uses to emulate fiction. I would be okay with that, but it would require further discussion concerning how and what is modeled by the game.

It depends if the traits come from their physical differences, or cultural ones. I don't think cultural traits for races should exist (i. e. Stonecunning, Weapon/Armor Proficiency, etc) in the base races, because in different settings it may not make sense for the races to have those features.

Also, would those traits be balanced against each other? In a vacuum, I would be inclined to say that immunity to magical sleep and resistance to poison are not on equal footing in terms of value. In theory, the floating ability scores would mean more freedom, but would that weigh out in practice if one choice is presented as obviously better and of objectively more value than others?

WotC is the one who balances abilities, not me.

The answer may become to allow for some method of "purchasing" racial abilities (and this is already somewhat reflected in the form of racial feats). But, at that point, is the game still D&D or would you be better off playing a system (such as something like GURPS) which is built around the concept of point buy and building characters that way?

Why should other games work that way, and not D&D?

 

[Cadence]

It depends if the traits come from their physical differences, or cultural ones. I don't think cultural traits for races should exist (i. e. Stonecunning, Weapon/Armor Proficiency, etc) in the base races, because in different settings it may not make sense for the races to have those features.

Strongly agree with this.

Why should other games work that way, and not D&D?

What makes D&D be D&D? There's been lots of talk about the settings, so it's not that. If it's not things that have always been a major part of the rules like different races, classes, and ability scores, then what is it?