New Feat: Exotic Melee Weapon Training

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Exotic Melee Weapon Training


You have undergone special weapon training, and have unlocked the secrets of using your melee weapons in unusual ways, and to using unusual melee weapons.


Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.


You may treat a melee weapon you wield as having one additional weapon property, with the following limitations:

  • You may add Heavy to any weapon that doesn’t have the Finesse or Light property.
    • It also gains the Two-Handed property when you add the Heavy property.
  • You may add Finesse to any weapon that doesn’t have the Heavy property or Two-Handed property.
  • You may add Reach to any weapon that doesn’t have the Light property.
  • You may add Light to any weapon that doesn’t have the Heavy property or Two-Handed property.
  • You may add Thrown to any weapon. (Range 20/60)
  • If a weapon has no properties, you may add a property, then add a second property with the restrictions listed above.


You are also proficient with exotic melee weapons that are based on weapons you are already proficient with. Defined here as melee weapons that are created with one additional property compared to a normal version of the weapon. You cannot add a weapon property to an exotic weapon with this feat. Exotic weapons are meant to represent unusual weapons from other cultures or exotic lands, or the strange weapons crafted by the gnomes.


This feat came about because I was trying to come up with a way of adding exotic weapons back to the game, and decided that using a normal weapon in an exotic way was just as good and didn't need to add any new weapon tables. It hasn't been play tested at all, it's just been kicking around in my head for a few months and I finally decided to write it up. I restricted it to melee weapons because it seemed like a potentially bad idea to add most melee weapon properties to ranged weapons, and ranged weapon properties generally don't make any sense on melee weapons. Let me know that you think - any balance problems I've overlooked, etc.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
This is a cool idea. I think it's quite powerful, and could be scaled back and it would still find wide appeal.

Specifics:
* change "that doesn't have the Heavy property" to "that doesn't have either or both of the Heavy property and the Two-Handed property". (Technically this only adds the great club, but conceptually I think it's important) Maybe exclude versatile too?
* remove the cumbersome "exotic weapons" rules at the end.
* I think you could also get rid of the +1 STR/DEX.

Every rogue and elf would want this.
 
Last edited:

futrtrubl

Explorer
I think I would agree with Kobold Stew, you have already said it's also about using regular weapons in new ways (as well as new weapons, but removing it doesn't limit you). Or I might say "You are proficient in any exotic weapon (melee weapon modified by this feature) with a base weapon you are proficient in."
One thing I would change is the last bullet point. As written you could make a Heavy Light weapon. Allow them to pick any property and then to add another based on the previous rules.
 
Last edited:

Zilong

First Post
I know I would love to have this sort of thing as an official or semiofficial option. It's rather irritating that weapons like staves and spears are only finessable through multiclassing into monk (not that I have a problem with monks, just the way weapons are restricted at the moment).
 

This feat would be a great gift to optimizers. The weapon properties appear to have been deliberately applied to prevent certain overpowered combos, this feat lets you get around all that.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I know I would love to have this sort of thing as an official or semiofficial option. It's rather irritating that weapons like staves and spears are only finessable through multiclassing into monk (not that I have a problem with monks, just the way weapons are restricted at the moment).

Out of curiosity, why is it important to be an "official" option? And what do you mean by that?
 

So, you could use this feat to make weapons that you can apply the GWM damage boost to, but also use with a shield AC bonus? Or with the bonus attack from Dual-wielding?

I'm also not entirely sure what an example exotic weapon would be. The current table includes most weapons that I can think of, and anything unusual enough to not be covered would probably require its own power source or be weird and unique: probably better handled as a magic item rather than regular equipment.
As I read it, you could use the current exotic weapon rules you have there to apply two new weapon properties to a weapon: one from the weapon and one from the feat.

The others have covered the other issues: creation of Light or Finesse Heavy weapons etc.
 

I know I would love to have this sort of thing as an official or semiofficial option. It's rather irritating that weapons like staves and spears are only finessable through multiclassing into monk (not that I have a problem with monks, just the way weapons are restricted at the moment).
Monks are magical: that is why they get to use weapons in ways that would not normally be possible. (Using Dex with a quarterstaff etc, (or even a Maul if you're a kensei.))

Out of curiosity, why is it important to be an "official" option? And what do you mean by that?
A lot of DMs will allow officially published, or even UA options where they might not allow the same rule as a requested houserule from a player, or DMsGuild material.

For example while I removed the Finesse requirement for Sneak attack as a houserule, I would probably say no to a player wanting to finesse quarterstaves. However I do allow Monks, and might consider allowing a kensei character.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
So, you could use this feat to make weapons that you can apply the GWM damage boost to, but also use with a shield AC bonus? Or with the bonus attack from Dual-wielding?

I'm also not entirely sure what an example exotic weapon would be. The current table includes most weapons that I can think of, and anything unusual enough to not be covered would probably require its own power source or be weird and unique: probably better handled as a magic item rather than regular equipment.
As I read it, you could use the current exotic weapon rules you have there to apply two new weapon properties to a weapon: one from the weapon and one from the feat.

The others have covered the other issues: creation of Light or Finesse Heavy weapons etc.

I've edited the original post, changes are in red.

The last bit about exotic weapons can safely be ignored if the DM doesn't want to add them to his game. I put it in there because I may choose to add a few to my home game, and this gives players a way of being proficient with them even if they've never encountered them before.

An exotic weapon could be something like an "Elven Longsword" with the same stats as the longsword, but with the finesse property. It does more damage than a rapier and is more versatile than a longsword.

If you found such a weapon, this feat would allow you to be proficient in it, or this feat could let you treat a regular longsword as if it had the finesse property.
 

An exotic weapon could be something like an "Elven Longsword" with the same stats as the longsword, but with the finesse property. It does more damage than a rapier and is more versatile than a longsword..
That rather brings up one of my major gripes about that concept: How does this Elven Longsword differ from a normal longsword that grants it this property?
Special and rare materials? Treat like a magic item and allow anyone already proficient in longsword to use.
The weapon is clearly superior to a normal longsword: allowing even small children or infirm elderly to strike as hard as an athletic warrior. Why is in not in general use? What is it about its techniques that mean that these weapons haven't become part of martial training?

Yes, I may be a little picky about this. (My group has several people who use swords, and one who makes them in it; those questions would probably be the first that would be asked if I tried something like that.) These are my personal concerns and may not even be an issue in other groups.

If you found such a weapon, this feat would allow you to be proficient in it, or this feat could let you treat a regular longsword as if it had the finesse property.
But it also allows you to do both: use this already superior weapon and add another special property to it.
The weapon already has Finesse added to it by virtue of . . . whatever makes it an 'exotic' weapon. This feat allows you to also stack Reach, or Light, or even Thrown onto this.
Is that intended?
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
Even with the changes, it's still a terribly powerful feat, that could impact every round of every combat for a charter that has it.

Conceptually, you seem to be playing with two things here:
* special weapons, physical objects that are more efficient than those generally used
* special fighting techniques, new ways to use traditional weapons.

For a feat, to me, only the second makes sense. If there are finesse longswords out there, one would expect them to be widely used in society. The game was pretty clear about the limits of finesse weapons, and so the feat should be a new technique for using existing weapons.

Every elf still might want it -- elven weapon training does not give proficiency with a finesse melee weapon, despite the race's dex bonus.

It also allows a rogue to have a wider range of weapons with which to sneak attack. I'd build rogues specifically around this feat, characters using a spear, or a quarterstaff, or a battle-axe.

For me, *That*'s worth the investment of a feat, and is stronger than many others already in the PHB.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
That rather brings up one of my major gripes about that concept: How does this Elven Longsword differ from a normal longsword that grants it this property?
Special and rare materials? Treat like a magic item and allow anyone already proficient in longsword to use.
The weapon is clearly superior to a normal longsword: allowing even small children or infirm elderly to strike as hard as an athletic warrior. Why is in not in general use? What is it about its techniques that mean that these weapons haven't become part of martial training?

If you allow exotic weapons, then the assumption is that they require special training to use them properly, over and above that of a normal weapon.
Hence, the feat requirement.


But it also allows you to do both: use this already superior weapon and add another special property to it.
The weapon already has Finesse added to it by virtue of . . . whatever makes it an 'exotic' weapon. This feat allows you to also stack Reach, or Light, or even Thrown onto this.
Is that intended?

No. It's intended to be one or the other - add a property to a normal weapon, or use an exotic weapon as is. I added another update to the original feat.
 
Last edited:

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Yea, for a feat, I'm not seeing where it would be overpowered with your current restrictions. You could dual wield a pair of finesse light 1d8 weapons, which is a +1 damage bump per weapon. Or you could make a longsword (or other 1d8 versatile 1d10 weapon) with dueling style, and make it heavy to use GWM. It's nice, but that's a pretty heavy feat investment for a small bump to AC.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Even with the changes, it's still a terribly powerful feat, that could impact every round of every combat for a charter that has it.

Conceptually, you seem to be playing with two things here:
* special weapons, physical objects that are more efficient than those generally used
* special fighting techniques, new ways to use traditional weapons.

For a feat, to me, only the second makes sense. If there are finesse longswords out there, one would expect them to be widely used in society. The game was pretty clear about the limits of finesse weapons, and so the feat should be a new technique for using existing weapons.

If the exotic weapons don't make sense to you, don't include them in the game. I just kept that part in because mechanically it is identical to the "exotic technique" version, and can potentially add some flavor by allowing unusual or special weapons that are associated with a specific culture or combat style, etc.

You could add a magical exotic weapon to the treasure, giving them incentive to take the feat, but the feat would remain useful even if they get a different weapon down the line - it doesn't lock them into a specific weapon or the feat is wasted the way 3e did.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
You miss my point.

1. There already is a feat to learn "exotic weapons" (if one chooses to add them to one's game). The otherwise nearly-useless Exotic Weapons Master. If that is your concern, the feat isn't needed. I could have said "For a [new, home-brewed] feat...."

2. There are two completely distinct concepts that are being blurred because mechanically they level out. One is already in the game, and the other, as I've tried to indicate, is a clean and cool new idea.

Hope this helps!
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
You miss my point.

1. There already is a feat to learn "exotic weapons" (if one chooses to add them to one's game). The otherwise nearly-useless Exotic Weapons Master. If that is your concern, the feat isn't needed. I could have said "For a [new, home-brewed] feat...."

There is no "Exotic Weapon Master" feat in the PHB. Perhaps you mean "Weapon Master", which gives you proficiency with 4 weapons of your choice?

2. There are two completely distinct concepts that are being blurred because mechanically they level out. One is already in the game, and the other, as I've tried to indicate, is a clean and cool new idea.

I don't see them as being completely distinct. But if you do, and you want to use the feat, just remove the bit about exotic weapons. It doesn't really affect it one way or another.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
There is no "Exotic Weapon Master" feat in the PHB. Perhaps you mean "Weapon Master", which gives you proficiency with 4 weapons of your choice?
Yup - that's the one. (thanks for the correction -- working from memory for a feat that I've never seen taken :D ). Your idea about Exotic weapons already has a space in the game; including it here is redundant.

I don't see them as being completely distinct. ... It doesn't really affect it one way or another.
I'm not sure I understand, unless you are finessing the word "completely". In any case, you see the point, even if you choose not to accept it.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Yup - that's the one. (thanks for the correction -- working from memory for a feat that I've never seen taken :D ). Your idea about Exotic weapons already has a space in the game; including it here is redundant.
Or it is a worthy replacement for a feat that is never taken.

I'm not sure I understand, unless you are finessing the word "completely". In any case, you see the point, even if you choose not to accept it.

I don't see them as completely distinct. I see them as variations on a theme, and mechanically almost identical (the only difference being that an exotic weapon locks you into a specific extra property for that weapon, while the exotic training gives you a choice of properties). In any case, the bit about exotic weapons is basically fluff. If you don't like it, don't use it.
 

No. It's intended to be one or the other - add a property to a normal weapon, or use an exotic weapon as is. I added another update to the original feat.
Can exotic weapons break the restrictions that the feat lets you apply to a normal weapon?

If not, why bother with an exotic weapon, when you still need the feat to use it, but the feat already allows you to do exactly the same thing with a normal one?
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
I don't see them as completely distinct. I see them as variations on a theme, and mechanically almost identical (the only difference being that an exotic weapon locks you into a specific extra property for that weapon, while the exotic training gives you a choice of properties). In any case, the bit about exotic weapons is basically fluff. If you don't like it, don't use it.
Your version of the feat also allows a character to swap weapons more easily if a magical weapon is found that isn't in the form the character favors. (This is definitely a feature, not a bug.)

Kudos for the feat, I'll be using it in my games.
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top