New Feat: Hoplite Spear-Fighting

[Evilhalfling]

Gates of Fire - the book that covers the battle with a bit more detail,
places the spartan spears at 8'

 

[Aust Diamondew]

My only suggestion is that this feat be limited to light armor/unarmored. It just seems to mech more with the Hoplite ideal. I know that tends to screw over a fighter ... but I think that's the price you are going to pay.

Hoplites would fight armored if they had the money to afford it.

The hoplite ideal is not walking around in a thong and no shirt to show off that six pack you've been working on.


Back on topic on my semi-antiquity inspired game I allow characters to wield long spears with one hand without the use of a feat, I haven't encountered any problems yet. So making it a feat proably wouldn't break the game.

To echoe what others have said, what I've read places a traditional hoplites spear at around 8 feet.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm not sure that a feat designed to turn a spear-and-shield fighter into an effective Hoplite should have five prerequisite feats. That means a basic hoplite, fresh from training with everything he needs to know, would need to be a 4th-level human Fighter. Then there is the +6 BAB requirement, bumping it to 6th level, with only 2 feats available for customizing the character. A 6th-level Fighter is among the elite of the D&D NPC warriors, no? Not a freshly-trained, unbloodied soldier.

Also, I think any feat that intends to create a hoplite must assume that the feat user is fighting with an ally immediately on either side of him, and allies behind him with longspears reaching past.
Perhaps look to Phalanx Fighting for some inspiration, although that feat is woefully low on flavor. The bonus against charging characters, I think, should be related strongly, even exclusively, to fighting in a group. The spear lunge is actually better than Lunging Strike [PHB2], which requires a full-round action for a single strike, instead of a Standard action: I think it could be balanced based on facing rules, but that's a different topic of discussion.

On the other hand, for phalanx fighting, facing rules make ENORMOUS sense to include.

 

[Nifft]

I'm not sure that a feat designed to turn a spear-and-shield fighter into an effective Hoplite should have five prerequisite feats. That means a basic hoplite, fresh from training with everything he needs to know, would need to be a 4th-level human Fighter.

Sounds like a Spartan to me.

Also, I think any feat that intends to create a hoplite must assume that the feat user is fighting with an ally immediately on either side of him, and allies behind him with longspears reaching past.

Sadly, we play D&D, where that will almost never be useful. The simulationist in me likes the idea of the circumstances; but the gamer wants to be useful to gamers.

The spear lunge is actually better than Lunging Strike [PHB2], which requires a full-round action for a single strike, instead of a Standard action: I think it could be balanced based on facing rules, but that's a different topic of discussion.

Ooo, hadn't noticed that. And same +6 BAB prereq, I see. Full-round action is about the same as a standard action so far as my intent goes -- both prevent a full attack. Consider mine changed to be a full-round action, too.

On the other hand, for phalanx fighting, facing rules make ENORMOUS sense to include.

For company command in general, facing makes a lot of sense. And even tactically, for a single Barbarian charging into the rear ranks, the only way for it to be effective at all would be to have the company keep its facing.

Some rules on moving companies around vs. individual dudes could make war-games a lot more manageable. A template like "mob" but for a trained group instead of an incited one.

Hmm.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Machiavelli]

Sounds like a Spartan to me.

Ahhhh, so you're creating a Spartan. Well, then that's a regional feat

Sadly, we play D&D, where that will almost never be useful. The simulationist in me likes the idea of the circumstances; but the gamer wants to be useful to gamers.

I probably am going overboard on the simulation. Hm, maybe the bonus against charges could apply only when two allies are flanking the feat user.
Alternatively, the benefits of Reach Attack and Phalanx Ward could be lost when the feat user is flanked by enemies. The weakness of the phalanx was, in fact, its vulnerability to flanking.