New Feat: Skill Finesse

[trav_laney]

Does anyone see any power balance issues with this feat?

Skill Finesse (General)
Your grace and agility compensates for a lack of strength.
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: You apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to Climb, Jump, and Swim checks.
Special: Fighters may select this feat as one of their bonus feats

Thoughts?

 

[Arkhandus]

Um, it makes Dexterity even more uber than it already is?

Aside from that..... It could boost three skills significantly for a character with high Dex and low Str. Makes Str more of a dump stat for archers and thieves, I suppose? Not much of a concern anyway I think.

Climb and Jump are kinda pointless when you get access to flight spells or magic items, though still useful sometimes. Swim is in the same boat once you apply the Fly spell with Freedom of Movement and Water Breathing. But still, kinda useful (can't always rely on magic in every circumstance).

Jump and Dexterity don't quite fit together, IMO, since being more flexible or well-coordinated isn't really gonna help you jump over a pit of acid. More a matter of leg strength.

But, Dex is already the most generally-useful and significant ability score (Constitution's a close 2nd).

 

[Darklone]

Um, it makes Dexterity even more uber than it already is?

Aside from that..... It could boost three skills significantly for a character with high Dex and low Str. Makes Str more of a dump stat for archers]/b] and thieves, I suppose? Not much of a concern anyway I think.
....
But, Dex is already the most generally-useful and significant ability score (Constitution's a close 2nd).

I don't agree about the evaluation of strength. Have a look here.

To call str a dump stat for archers confirms to me that you do not seem to see its value realistically.

For D&D archers str is a close second to dex, for some classes with high BAB it's even more important. Archers have many attacks and hit rather well, they need damage.

And having a high str with a comp bow is the cheapest way to increase your damage.

About the feat: Usually it's one feat to get one different attribute for a save or a skill, not three. I think the feat is too strong as is. Perhaps add two feats as prerequisites that give a +2 to two of these skills, that would be ok.

 

[ivocaliban]

Races of the Wild includes the Agile Athlete feat:

Prerequisites: Climb 1 rank, Jump 1 rank
Benefit: When making a Climb or Jump check, you use your Dexterity modifer for the check.

No Dex requirement; Swim skill isn't included.

Also, it's not considered a fighter feat.


EDIT: Just in case I wasn't clear in listing the Agile Athlete feat above, I also feel Skill Finesse is overpowered. It enhances three different skills (all three of which happen to be in the Fighter skill list), it enhances the importance of one of the already most important abilities (Dexterity), and it is also considered a Fighter feat.

It seems obviously contrived for someone playing a Dexterity based Fighter or Fighter/Rogue. Adding this sort of feat to combinations involving multi-class Fighters, Rogues, Swashbucklers and the like would lead to imbalance. Particularly if you add in Prestige Classes like the Dread Pirate, Duelist, Thief-Acrobat, etc.

In certain settings, this feat could be even more trouble. For instance, in a pirate/swashbuckling campaign like my own, this would definitely not be allowed. I think Agile Athlete is as good as it gets. Two skills only (climb/jump) and it's not considered a Fighter feat. If you want it, you have to spend a bonus or level feat.

 

[Michael Morris]

I've ran this exact feat IMC almost since 3e came out. Only seen two players take it, and even when it was applied to a halfling with a 6 strength and a 20 dexterity it didn't seem out of line.

 

[Arkhandus]

To call str a dump stat for archers confirms to me that you do not seem to see its value realistically.

Yeah, sure, just jump to foolish conclusions. Whatever.
1) Composite bows in 3.0 only had a few Strength ratings, so there was a hard limit to how much an archer could benefit from Strength.
2) Archery isn't for beefy fighters, barbarians, rangers, and paladins. They can fall back on it when needed, but they're really just going to shine in melee combat. Archery as a main focus is for bards, rogues, monks, and multiclass characters who can't survive melee for long. You are aware of the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, yes? Monks can appreciate and utilize longbows too.
3) There are plenty of other ways to boost an archer's damage. By the time a character can afford a good composite longbow, he or she could also afford some alchemist's arrows, +1 arrows, +1 something-bane arrows, or whatnot. There are also feats and spells that can boost ranged attack capabilities.

I'm well aware, I just don't consider Strength a must-have second-best stat for archers, especially considering what kinds of characters are most likely to be the main archers of a party. Bards and rogues have much more important stats to emphasize for their other abilities. And a sneak-attacking rogue with a bow can still be pretty devastating at short range (with the right preparations to get off a full-attack of that sort). Strength also isn't as thematically important to such characters, so it can afford to be just average or a little bit above average.

 

[Darklone]

Explanation accepted, excuse my rash post, I just came from a Discussion in General .

You're right that secondary archers usually don't have good str ratings, still a +1 or +2 for a few 100 gp is nothing to frown at.

And allow me to disagree that archery doesn't pay off for the big str classes. Sure, twohanded weapon fighters cause more damage ... but archers do it at a distance and have an easier time to apply full attack actions.

I don't agree as well on the low price of other means to enhance archery damage, most of these things cost nearly as much as a puny +3 str bow (400gp without MW) and are often not available. I mean, how much do 50 arrows +1 cost? And how fast does a Rapid Shot using archer waste them?
Spells/abilities: Yes, they do exist and cost you usually one or more full attack actions.

I do agree on your arguments about secondary archers but there are a lot of primary archers in my games (even rogues/bards/elf druids/clerics) who are well advised not to use str as dump stat.