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New GSL Announcement

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amethal

Adventurer
lurkinglidda said:
It does mean that you can not produce the same product in different versions.

I might end up saying this a lot over the next few days/weeks/months: We are absolutely confident in 4E - to the point that we are only producing 4e products ourselves from here on out.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Aren't you a bit worried that only making 4th edition D&D might upset the fans of some of your other products, like Magic? :)
 

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Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
jaerdaph said:
It's amazing how many gamers around here were (once again) so WRONG about WotC/Hasbro's motivations and reasons for the delay. :\

I'm not sure it's a matter of being wrong about the motivations and reasons for the delay, but it's a good day to be wrong about the ultimate resolution.

Clark put it well:

Orcus said:
Lets not get too much into revisionist history here. Some of the doomsaying was well founded. What was not well founded was the evil conspiracy nonsense. But there were some dark days along this road, some times were I believe it was possible that open gaming wasnt going to happen for 4E. But luckily Scott and Linae pulled this out and got it done. Lets not pretend there was no resistance and no struggle and that this was how it was supposed to work all along, cause it wasnt.

There were days I had my doubts. Now I can lapse back into my knee-jerk defense of corporations and capitalism.
 

BryonD

Hero
jaerdaph said:
It's amazing how many gamers around here were (once again) so WRONG about WotC/Hasbro's motivations and reasons for the delay. :\
I was wrong because I thought we'd get a middle of the road result. As I put it before, I expected WotC to take off their white hats, but I didn't at all expect them to become bad guys. Turns out they kept the white hats after all. I was wrong. Hurray!!!

But I also defended people whose opinions were more dire than mine. I thought they were wrong, but I didn't think it was an outrage that they could reach their concerns. It turns out their concerns were further misplaced than I thought. But that doesn't change my opinion of the thoughts they had at the time based on the information they had at the time.
 

jaldaen

First Post
Originally Posted by amethal
The GSL and the OGL are mutually exclusive.

I get that you can't use both in the same book.

However, does anyone know if that also means you can't produce the same product in different versions - one under the GSL and one under the OGL?

lurkinglidda said:
It does mean that you can not produce the same product in different versions.

So if I understand you, then if you produced the World of Whatever campaign setting or Catalog of Cool Monsters under the OGL, then you cannot convert these products to 4e under the GSL?

Or is there a grandfather clause allowing previous OGL content to be converted to GSL, but not the simultanious production of the same products (World of Whatever for 4e and World of Whatever for the FANTASY! system) under both OGL and GSL.

Thanks for your answers, they really are a great help ;)
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
lurkinglidda said:
It does mean that you can not produce the same product in different versions.

I might end up saying this a lot over the next few days/weeks/months: We are absolutely confident in 4E - to the point that we are only producing 4e products ourselves from here on out.

Hm, this seems a bit stringent, particularly since I know some companies want to produce OGL and 4E versions of books they're working on now, or have recently done.

What constitutes "the same product" under the GSL?
 

Brown Jenkin

First Post
I am not stepping up to admit I was wrong, because it hasn't been shown yet. I speculated the delay was because someone in upper management had a problem with the GSL. So far we know nothing about why the delay happened. I have also had minor speculations that there might be problems with the GSLin what they will allow or not. Again since they are keeping the GSL under NDA even though they don't have to there is no way of knowing if I was wrong or not. I will be happy to admit I am wrong when it is shown that I am wrong.
 

Delta

First Post
lurkinglidda said:
It does mean that you can not produce the same product in different versions.

But Scott Rouse said yesterday:

Publishers can update titles done under the OGL to the GSL as long as they are compliant with the new license.

Aren't these contradictory? Can a publisher publish a product first as OGL, and then immediately thereafter update it to GSL?
 

The Lost Muse

First Post
Delta said:
Aren't these contradictory? Can a publisher publish a product first as OGL, and then immediately thereafter update it to GSL?

Assuming that the product they are updating is something that could have been published under the d20 licence that we all know and love, there will not likely be any problems issuing it under the GSL (unless there are more restrictions). Products like Iron Heroes or Mutants and Masterminds might have a bigger challenge, because they describe how to level up a character, generate ability scores, and other information that is noallowed unless the product is OGL.

I would be interested to know if you could product a OGL product with a 4e appendix allowing you the best of both worlds.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Hm, could Linae possibly have meant that you can't produce the same book with both Licenses (the OGL and GSL) in it at the same time? Because that'd make a lot more sense.
 
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Pramas

Explorer
Timmundo said:
Assuming that the product they are updating is something that could have been published under the d20 licence that we all know and love, there will not likely be any problems issuing it under the GSL (unless there are more restrictions). Products like Iron Heroes or Mutants and Masterminds might have a bigger challenge, because they describe how to level up a character, generate ability scores, and other information that is noallowed unless the product is OGL.

For the record 4E and the GSL will have no impact on Mutants & Masterminds. It's its own game and it will continue as such.
 

kenmarable

Adventurer
lurkinglidda said:
It does mean that you can not produce the same product in different versions.

I might end up saying this a lot over the next few days/weeks/months: We are absolutely confident in 4E - to the point that we are only producing 4e products ourselves from here on out.
Sorry, just asking about this as well. ;) If the answer is "Wait until June 6" or "Wait until we post more info on the website", that's understandable.

So can I publish an adventure called "Lair of the Really Nasty Bad Guy" for 3.5 using only the 3.5 SRD and release it under the OGL, but also take the same adventure plot, etc. but write it only using 4e SRD-approved content and release it under the GSL?

So it's not a 1-to-1 perfect match of course, but it can be approximate by using half-dragon NPCs in the 3.5 and dragonborn in the 4e, having succubi be demons or devils depending on 3.5 or 4, as well as even using entirely different monsters if there's no obvious match. I am NOT talking about taking a 4e unique monster and creating a 3.5 monster "inspired by" the 4e version or anything dodgy like that. Just using 3.5 material and license to make a 3.5 adventure, and 4e material and license to RE-make the same adventure for 4e. (Also assuming reasonable differences in branding, advertising, blah blah, so as to avoid consumer confusion.)

I'm just wondering if that's cool with the new license.

Thanks!
 

EATherrian

First Post
Mouseferatu said:
And how few of them will step up and admit to it.

I think I was public with my worry that it could be a possibility. I'm glad it isn't the road they took, it actually makes me more amiable to 4E.
 

Bacris

First Post
The fact that Necro still plans to release their 3.5 books in 4E leads me to believe it may just be that you can't release the same thing with both licenses. Obviously, any release would have to conform to the terms of each license, which are different, so it couldn't be the exact same product, but I find it hard to believe that a port of a book couldn't be made. Now, 4E mechanics being vastly different means a lot of 3.x material is going to be invalidated, but system-neutral material I would hope could be reused, to an extent.
 


HyrumOWC

First Post
Mouseferatu said:
And how few of them will step up and admit to it.

I'll admit I was wrong. :)

I'm GLAD there will be a GSL. I'm not 100% sold on 4e yet but I do have the books on pre-order with Amazon. :)

Hyrum.
OWC
 

lurkinglidda

First Post
Alzrius said:
Hm, could Linae possibly have meant that you can't produce the same book with both Licenses (the OGL and GSL) in it at the same time? Because that'd make a lot more sense.
Yes, that is what I was trying to convey.

We totally recognize that this mutual exclusivity will keep some publishers from joining us in 4E. That's a business decision they need to make, and we respect that.
 

Delta

First Post
lurkinglidda said:
Yes, that is what I was trying to convey.

Let me see if I understand this. You're saying that you CAN produce the same product in different versions. As long as there are two distinct versions, each released under one specific, distinct license. Correct?
 

Vigilance

Explorer
Psion said:
Seriously, how many people were suggesting malice in the first place?

More than a few.

There were plenty of people outright stating that Wizards was lying about the GSL, but delaying the announcement until after the books were released to minimize backlash.

There were also people stating that Cease and Desist letters would start going out to fan sites.

Lizard even stated that he expected Wizards' attitude toward fan sites to be HARSHER than TSR's was.

So yeah, there was some crazy talk in these threads.
 

lurkinglidda

First Post
Delta said:
Let me see if I understand this. You're saying that you CAN produce the same product in different versions. As long as there are two distinct versions, each released under one specific, distinct license. Correct?
No. That is not what I was trying to say. I'll try to reword it so it is a little clearer:

Publishers can put out a product under the OGL - OR - they can put out a product under a 4E GSL.

3.x or 4E

Not both.

One or t'other.

By "mutual exclusivity" I mean, different versions of the same product cannot occur at the same time.

Hope I don't come off as being snarky - I'm not trying to be mean or sound like I'm talking down or anything - I just want to make sure I'm communicating the message clearly!
 
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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
lurkinglidda said:
No. That is not what I was trying to say. I'll try to reword it so it is a little clearer:

Publishers can put out a product under the OGL - OR - they can put out a product under a 4E GSL.

3.x or 4E

Not both.

One or t'other.

By "mutual exclusivity" I mean, different versions of the same product cannot occur at the same time.

Hope I don't come off as being snarky - I'm not trying to be mean or sound like I'm talking down or anything - I just want to make sure I'm communicating the message clearly!

So in other words, if I print "The Book of New Rules" under the OGL, I can't also print "The Book of New Rules" under the GSL, correct?

This'd seem to imply that the GSL has specific language regarding its exclusivity from OGL works. It also means that there's going to have to be some definition of what it means to have a book that's the same but with different versions, as opposed to two very-slightly different books that use different licenses.

Honestly, I think it would have been easier - and more publisher-friendly - to just keep it to not having the GSL and OGL both be present at the same time in the same book.

Will there be some sort of clause to allow publishers to print 4E versions of OGL books printed before the GSL's release?
 
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