New GSL Announcement

[S'mon]

You wanna go that route? Feel free...

That was the whole reason for the OGL and the "safe harbor."

As you can see, Mayfair weathered that storm just fine and is here with us today...oh wait. Death by litigation. (yes, not 100% true, but you dont want those legal bills, believe me).

Which, actually, brings me back to a point I made some pages back. We are currently complaining about the poison pill of giving up our right to do more 4E stuff if we go back to the OGL. But there was a perhaps less hotly contested poison pill in the original d20 STL/Guide--that we not contest Wizards' ownership of certain things. Under original copyright law, analyzed outside of teh OGL, their claim of ownership was tenuous, but credible enough that the risk of a lawsuit was real. Many of the legally minded folks balked at having to swallow that poison pill too.

Hi Clark - remember that TSR nailed Mayfair for breach of contract, not for copyright infringement. Both the OGL and GSL are contractual documents.
It's much easier to win a breach of contract case than a non-literal copyright case. Now, the OGL gave enough in return for what it took ("Product Identity"/no dispute) that it seemed a pretty good deal overall, but it looks like the GSL terms will be much more favourable to WoTC. And they may give much stronger grounds for a lawsuit vs 3pps than copyright law would.

 

[Ydars]

I only hope this thread convinces WoTC that they have made a serious error. As I said earlier, I cannot see why any successful 3PP would take up the GSL license, Necromancer Games apart, because it makes no business sense.

So if WoTC really do want 3PP support for 4E, then they had better have included some really "cool" inducements that we don't know about.

 

[AZRogue]

You shouldn't be. The status of the license affects consumers as well as creators.

I, for one, would love for Green Ronin to translate, say, Freeport products or the Book of Fiends into a 4E format. But they more than likely won't because of the (unconfirmed but highly probably) restrictions being put into the GSL.

So, really, I'm baffled by your bafflement.

I couldn't agree more. The loss of Green Ronin due to the "poison pill" provision we have heard about would be devastating to me. I have Necromancy, have lost Paizo, and now it seems must lose Green Ronin too. One of three ain't bad, but two of three is better, or so my dad used to say.

 

[Pinotage]

That Green Ronin can't re-release Freeport and Mutants and Masterminds (help me out here, GR did product M&M, right?) under the new 4th edition license?

That's one of the unanswered questions of the license. Can you convert OGL to 4e? It's not been stated anywhere that you can or can't, and something that I'd like clarification on.

Pinotage

 

[AZRogue]

I just read Jason Bulmahn's RPG Blog and have to say it's very interesting. I hadn't thought of the potential consequences down the road. I'm not saying he's correct, just that I find his worst-case-scenario a bit disturbing. Here's the text of the blog post:

Wow. I step away from my computer for about 6 hours and miss the craziness unfolding.

It seems like Wotc wants to put the genie back in the bottle (or at least put it on a leash). Allow me to explain.

Apparently, there will be terms in the new GSL (the Game System License, that allows publishers to put out material that is compatible with 4E) that states that if you use the GSL you must cease production of all OGL products. Forever... (unless you stop printing the GSL forever).

Alright, now let me take off my Paizo hat and put on my concerned gamer hat. The following bits are just my own wild conjecture.

So, it seems to me that the best way to close down the open system and move back to a closed one would be to follow this path.

1. Force publishers to stop producing OGL products in favor of GSL products.

2. Wait for the OGL games to die out, allowing the system to become a dusty relic.

3. Rescind the GSL, either with the advent of 5th Edition or at some other convenient time. Since the OGL market is dead, publishers would have a hard time going back to it.

Voila, you're back to a closed system. Now, much of this is sheer conjecture on my part and I have absolutely no knowledge that this is indeed the plan, but this news did awaken my inner conspiracy theorist.

I am not really sure how this news affects Paizo. It seems that Necro (our partner) will still be able to do 4E material even if we stay with Pathfinder. Who knows though, I have not even been in the office since Monday. I cannot say that this move shocks me really, but it does seem a bit adversarial.

I guess I should feel fortunate that these licenses exist at all, but I can't help but feel disappointed. I guess this is why none of my friends at Wotc have talked to me in a about a month. Ugg...

BTW, if you want to see the thread that spilled all this news, go here.

Edit: Funny, I just realized that the GSL is the monk class of licenses, you can take levels of it, but if you then take levels of anything else, you can never go back.

 

[S'mon]

Thulcondar, please email me offlist at s.t.newman (at) yahoo.com

My reply to your query keeps getting delivery failure notification.

-Simon

 

[Zaister]

I just read Jason Bulmahn's RPG Blog and have to say it's very interesting. I hadn't thought of the potential consequences down the road. I'm not saying he's correct, just that I find his worst-case-scenario a bit disturbing.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that corporate concept was the driving force behind the creation of Fourth Edition in the first place.

 

[Piratecat]

Oh, and let's also have a bot to say "we don't know everything yet, it's all hearsay, let's wait until we get all the info to talk about it." If that's your stance feel free to go elsewhere in the meantime...

Actually, no. You leave the thread - and the other GSL thread in the 4e forum while you're at it, in case you were just tempted to switch over. We're tired of consistent rudeness.

 

[RichGreen]

I just read the entire thread.

I seriously feel like this thread could use some more kittens in cups. So, here ya go.

Good call! It certainly did.


Richard

 

[Polyhedral_Columbia]

Using both the GSL and OGL by splitting into two companies.

What's to stop game companies from splitting into two separately-incorporated companies: one using the 4e GSL and one using the OGL?

Travis