New Hybrid Options

[Zaran]

I'm surprised noone has posted about this.

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (New Hybrid and Multiclass Options)

I think it will help those who want to do Vampires with other classes. I did think they could have done better with the other hybrid and Multiclass stuff. Too many feats needed still.

 

[Insight]

I approve. I really like the Vampire options. These will very likely get used in my home game in some fashion.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We were discussing it in the playtest thread.

Take homes: Blackguards and Executioner Assassins still broken when hybrided. (Blackguards get to take charismadin powers and so go single stat, Assassins get to finesse for extra damage with any basic attack including e.g. Eldritch Strike). This opens the door to some really ugly builds.

Build 1: Hell's Assassin. Requirements: Warlock|Assassin wielding a rapier. At Wills: Eldritch Strike and (who cares?). MBA: Charisma or Con +3 vs AC. d6+2d8+Charisma or Con + Slide 1 out of the gate. And scaling brutally at paragon and epic.

Build 2: Darth Vader. Requirements: Blackguard|Assassin. Brutal striker with both finesse and blackguard cha bonus applying on an MBA. AC: Plate armour, heavy shield. And then you start spraying close burst 3 divine sanction with your first level encounter and second level utility. For bonus points multiclass into Binder for shadow walk and to get yourself the ability to turn invisible 1/encounter when you kill someone.

On the other hand, the Vampire stuff is great. And some of those multiclass feats are nice.

 

[Neverfate]

There's about 6 or 7 pages (by now) at least of whining on the Char-Op forum about the fact they took away Pact Blade Manifestation from the article.

I originally emailed the play-test to get rid of PBM. I hope all of Char-Op's whining doesn't get it included again.

 

[TwoSix]

There's about 6 or 7 pages (by now) at least of whining on the Char-Op forum about the fact they took away Pact Blade Manifestation from the article.

I originally emailed the play-test to get rid of PBM. I hope all of Char-Op's whining doesn't get it included again.

Whining on Char-op? Shocking!

I understand their point (that hexblades aren't great and PBM just made a fun feature for other classes), but there's still a lot of resistance to the fact that Essentials classes are the new balance point. They're not going to let multi-classing steal the schtick of one of the core E-classes.

 

[fuzzlewump]

Build 1: Hell's Assassin. Requirements: Warlock|Assassin wielding a rapier. At Wills: Eldritch Strike and (who cares?). MBA: Charisma or Con +3 vs AC. d6+2d8+Charisma or Con + Slide 1 out of the gate. And scaling brutally at paragon and epic.

Is that really much better than a PHB rogue, with hardly any optimization at all? i.e. maybe taking backstabber at first level. Or a dual striking ranger? Plus, you have to deal with IMO lackluster assassin and warlock powers. Sure the basic attacks are good, but what about the warlock daily and encounter you will forced to take? No finesse there.

Build 2: Darth Vader. Requirements: Blackguard|Assassin. Brutal striker with both finesse and blackguard cha bonus applying on an MBA. AC: Plate armour, heavy shield. And then you start spraying close burst 3 divine sanction with your first level encounter and second level utility. For bonus points multiclass into Binder for shadow walk and to get yourself the ability to turn invisible 1/encounter when you kill someone.

This is definitely good, but not overly sticky. Has basically one mark at first level, and while it is punishing I don't think it beats fighter or knight. And again, you won't get damage bonus on the blackguard encounters and dailies.

It just doesn't strike me as over the top, and not substantially better, if at all, than classes right out of the PHB like Ranger, Fighter, and rogue.

 

[twilsemail]

This is definitely good, but not overly sticky. Has basically one mark

at first level, and while it is punishing I don't think it beats fighter
or knight. And again, you won't get damage bonus on the blackguard
encounters and dailies.

It just doesn't strike me as over the top, and not substantially better,
if at all, than classes right out of the PHB like Ranger, Fighter, and
rogue.

I don't think you're looking at the same .pdf as everyone else. That's a Striker|Striker/controller without a mark in sight

 

[fuzzlewump]

Eh, read what I was responding to I suppose. Divine sanction is a mark. He was saying to pick up the paladin power that gives divine sanction in a burst 3.

EDIT: If you're saying that neonchameleon is incorrect, I must admit I did not look at the PDF, I was just responding to what he said at face value. I have no idea if his builds he posted are rules compatible. I assume they are, and look good to me.

 

[twilsemail]

That's true, but the point isn't to be a Defender, it's to be a striker that can take hits. stickiness doesn't factor into the build.

 

[mneme]

edit: ninja'd.

IMO, they should just fix basic attack hybrids properly.

1. You can only use your bonus damage (or whatever) with Foo powers and Foo paragon path powers.
2. You gain the Foo Melee Basic Attack and Foo Ranged Basic Attack powers, which are just like MBA and RBA except that they are Foo powers, and can be used as a basic attack.

Done.