[New Item] M134 Crusher APM

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

From all that i've read I think that the GE mini gun actually exists.
Though i doubt that it's very cost effective for anything other than on vehicles.

 

[Shadow64]

the sheet i found is for the GE XM-214 and while the sheet that lists it has being tripod mounted it can apparently be fired as it has been seen in the movies. The sheet also lists as being in "evaluation". *shrug* maybe it got past R&D and saw a few field models but never really truly caught on except in hollywood. I still can't imagine the kick thought. Anyway, here is a link to the data sheet:
http://www.montysminiguns.com/sixpa.jpg

 

[Mistwell]

Here is the data from WOTC board:

1) The XM214 mini-minigun was developed in 1984 and closely resembles on the M134. Designed for helicopters & light aircraft, it fires 5.56mm rounds at variable rates of fire from 1,000 to 10,000 rpm. The gun and drive weigh 15kg and the driven variant uses 0.75 -> 3.2 hp dependent on the rate of fire. The gun can be powered by, (very heavy) NiCad batteries with a duration of 80,000 rounds at 1,000 rpm. Unfortunately the recoil force is 110kg at 10,000 rpm which would knock you off your feet, but (assuming a linear relationship) if the rof were 1,000 rpm (as limited by the battery pack) then the recoil should be only 11kg which might be manageable. Despite this, military tests with the XM214 proved the weapon far too impractical for man-portable use. In theory, one of these miniguns could be carried and fired by a single shooter at 1,000-2,000 rpm, if he could lift the gun + ammo + batteries (around 80 lbs). The effort needed to employ the weapon in such a manner is hardly worth it, and the lower fire rate eliminates the point of a minigun altogether.

2) The XM214 5.56mm Machine Gun was a terminated Research and Development project (1970-1971) for a six-barrel 5.56mm (.223 Cal.) Gatling type "mini-minigun". The XM214 was similar to the M134 "minigun" by General Electric Company (the same gun as the Air Force GAU-2B/A). It was electrically driven and could be installed on a pintle or in a turret mount. It was shown in a man-portable version in the movie Predator (1987) and in Jane's Weapon Systems of the same year there was an entry detailing the XM214. It had been tested by the Special Forces but rejected due to impractical weight. Availability today is extremely rare at best.
The weight of 45 lbs. is for the gun, motor, battery (good for 5,000 shots) and 500 shots. The gun, motor and battery weigh 15kg (33 lbs.). A tripod would weigh another 15 lbs. (+2 to Acc, but use the Gunner (Machine Gun) skill). One 500-round "cassette" weighs 14 lbs. The cassettes may be worn in a special harness ($100, 5 lbs.) on the back of the gunner and are linked through a rugged flexible chute to the gun. Two cassettes can clamp to the gun (or to the harness) at once, and it automatically switches when the first cassette is empty.
RoF can be set between 3-round bursts or 10,000 rounds per minute. Unfortunately the recoil force is 110kg (242 lbs.) at 10,000 rpm (GURPS RoF 166) which would knock you off your feet, but (assuming a linear relationship) if the RoF were 1,000 rpm (GURPS RoF 16) then the recoil should be only 11kg (24 lbs.) which might be manageable. Use 20-round groups for "Very High RoF" (p. HT78, CII66) to calculate "Hits in a burst" (p. B120).
3) The weapon takes 3 seconds [1 turn] to get it's barrel rotating at the proper rate, the weapon is then ready to fire. Because of the electrical operation the rate of fire vary from 300 to 6,000 rounds per minute [fire at least 15 bullets]. The recoil force generated is great but indistict, like a constant push, the weapon requires a Gyro or Vehicle Mount, without the character (even trolls) will fall down and the gun will most likely endanger unintended targets (GM's call). [The picture is a XM214, similar to the M134 but in 5.56mm not 7.62mm.]

 

[Pagan priest]

Excuse me, but "balance" is a nonsense issue. This is heavy duty military hardware. Saying that it is too deadly to characters has absolutely NO bearing on the discussion at hand. Nuclear warheads are too deadly for a character to survive. Want the stats for a 1 megaton blast?

The ONLY real question is whether or not the game stats as presented accurately portray the weapon. My only experience with any such weapon is from seeing it in a movie. Since d20M is suppose to be cinematic in scope, that's good enough for a source. To that end, I feel that these stats do a reasonable job of portraying the weapon.

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One question though, what about Strafe? That let's you convert the standard 10 x 10 autofire area into a 5 x 20 area.

 

[Shadow64]

One question though, what about Strafe? That let's you convert the standard 10 x 10 autofire area into a 5 x 20 area.

It is allowed, but I hadn't made any special rules for it for altering the size of the strafe area since the autofire area is larger. Maybe stretch it to a 10'x20' area, thats 8 squares compared to the 9 covered by the weapons "normal" 15'x15' area.

Given what i've found over the past day and what mistwell posted previously about what was on the WotC boards I am going to revise it slightly. when i have more time tonight

More then likely i will be doing this:
Damage: Chaged to 4d8 to reflect the d8 die used for 5.56 weapons. It may not sound as hefty as 4d10, but it will stick closer to the rules.
Firing Rate: 1 rate for attacking a single square (50 rounds) and a second firing rate for spraying the 15'x15' area (probably between 100-150 rounds.) Free action to switch between the two. I might think about making this a move-equivalant, but i'm not sure yet.

I've found that most combats are a mix of shooting single targets and autofiring, so even someone with the M134 will probably mix as well. Given 1000 rounds (since that seems to be the listed standard) as the normal load out it should allow for about 10 rounds of combat.

Movement: The rules for movement when using the weapon will stay the same.

If anyone uses this, even just for fun, please tell me how it worked out.

 

[Mistwell]

Excuse me, but "balance" is a nonsense issue. This is heavy duty military hardware. Saying that it is too deadly to characters has absolutely NO bearing on the discussion at hand. Nuclear warheads are too deadly for a character to survive. Want the stats for a 1 megaton blast? The ONLY real question is whether or not the game stats as presented accurately portray the weapon.

So it's reality that is important to you, not playability. Gotcha. For most of us, however, we rank playability and enjoyment above reality. Hit Points are not realistic, but they are playable and enhance fun, so we use them. Magic and monsters are not realistic, but some people use them in their games (for fun). In your game, I assume one shot from a gun usually kills (not unconscious, but KILLS) people even if they are the heros, even at high "levels". Fair enough. In your game I assume the base classes are not balanced against each other - since balance is a nonsense issue. Fair enough, your Charismatic and Smart heros probably suck (or however you judge the personality traits). That's your game - the rest of us, however, are probably concerned about balance, since it is an inherant part of d20, and having fun with a game.

My only experience with any such weapon is from seeing it in a movie. Since d20M is suppose to be cinematic in scope, that's good enough for a source. To that end, I feel that these stats do a reasonable job of portraying the weapon.

Wait. Now I am confused. You said the ONLY real question is whether or not the game stats as presented accurately portray the weapon. Now you are talking about cinematic in scope as being useful. How can that be?

In reality, the weapons used in those movies were plastic (otherwise the actors could not actually be running around with them - because they weigh too much). In addition, in reality, this weapon being discussed was scrapped because it didn't work nearly as well as the military had hoped it would (IE it turned out to be not nearly as portable as they had hoped).

Cinematically, however, balance is an issue. Nobody wants to go see a movie where the hero, or villian, cannot be challenged. Cinematically, it is important for there to be real conflict of some kind - some doubt (however slim) that the hero will make it. Movies consider balance to be crucial! Cinematically speaking, weapons are often overpowered (IE shotguns are shown as having a large cone effect, even though they do not), or underpowered (heros and key villans often survive the unsurvivable) - all to balance the story out.

So which is it - reality, or cinematic? If it's reality, I think GURPS is a better game for you (and I think both the makers of GURPS and d20 Modern would tell you the same thing). If it is cinematic - then balance is an important issue.

 

[Pagan priest]

Oh, the joys of writing in haste!

The balance I was refering to was with regard to other weapons. Is this more powerful than a M-60 or even a Ma Deuce? Yes, and well it should be. The M-60 machine gun is based on the design of the early WWII German squad support MG. The M-2 machine gun was also used in WWII. The M-134 has several decades of technology advances to draw upon. Even with the increased beaten zone spreading the bullets over a larger area, it is extremely likely that a man-sized target will be hit by several bullets, thus justifying a substancially higher amount of damage per hit. (Which reflects the abstract nature of hit points, and damage caused from a "hit".)

Would you have a Great Wyrm Red Dragon attack a 5th level party in a D&D game?

With the right type of FX, a d20M party could face a weapon such as this, and defeat it. Actually, even without any FX, an infiltrator should be able to sneak up on the M-134 gunner and slit his throat before a single shot could be fired. From the other side, should a party ever get there hands on such a weapon? Depends, is the party in a Mecha Crusade campaign? It could be the standard issue side arm. (An M-134 pistol... now THERE'S a scary thought!) ShadowChasers or Agents of Psi should likely never even be able to get their hands on such weaponry

When I DM, I prefer to not kill characters. I would not use such a weapon unless the senario warrented it. On the other hand, if the party knew that they might face vastly superior fire power and chose not to take appropriate preperations...TPK.

 

[Shadow64]

New revision of the item.

Changed the name to reflect the fact this isn't really a "real world" weapon, it's ficitional. If you want to use XM-214 which this weapon attempts to emulate go for it. Nobody will track you down and beat you with a frozen duck if you do.

Changed Damage Dice to d8's to reflect the 5.56 bullet damage.

Changed rate of fire for the two various styles of shooting. The ability to switch firing rates is emulated by that.

Changed the weight of both the gun and the ammo. Gun is a bit heavier then listed before and in the weapon specs i posted previously. THe weapon weight also includes the batteries now.

Added in information on how to use this with the Strafe Feat.

I think that's about all i did....