New Mindflayer Info

[Kid Charlemagne]

So it's an even bigger nerf?

Kind of depends on its duration - #3 on that list is clearly a weakening of the effect, but #1 makes it stronger, as it implies that a dazed creature can be sneak-attacked, which is a pretty big deal. #2 and #4 represent no significant change from 3E.

 

[Derren]

Unless Mind Flayers tend to be rogues being able to sneak attack is not a big advantage.
But I guess to counter this nerfs, mind blast now allows for no save (or hits automatically. You know what I mean).

 

[FireLance]

Kind of depends on its duration - #3 on that list is clearly a weakening of the effect, but #1 makes it stronger, as it implies that a dazed creature can be sneak-attacked, which is a pretty big deal. #2 and #4 represent no significant change from 3E.

Yup. The old daze prevented you from acting, but didn't make you worse off defensively. The new daze makes you more vulnerable since you grant combat advantage to all your attackers, but allows you to act. In a way, it trades the fear of inactivity for the fear of greater vulnerability.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That mind blast is pathetic.

Once per encounter? Daze? Good lord. That may be the biggest design nerf I've ever witnessed-- and I am not one to cry nerf willy-nilly.

First of all, in 3e, it's already vulnerable to Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. It's a 3rd level spell effect. If you know you're going to be facing mind flayers, I recommend carrying this spell.

(I'll note just for the record that the Heal spell removes the stunned condition, but as it's a 6th level spell I don't consider it a sufficient trump for a CR8 creature.)

I'd much rather they had left the power of the ability alone and tied it to the bloodied condition, either on the mind flayer's side or the targets'. If it were an ability that the mind flayer could only use under sufficient duress, or which he can only use on seriously wounded targets, that alone would have been sufficient to mitigate its "surprise round TPK total spoiler" status.

I am not sure whether its already pathetic:
- What's the duration? several rounds or just one round? (one round is weak)
- How hard is it to protect against? (attack bonus? irrestistable?)
- What actions does it cost? (immediate vs. swift vs standard vs. full!)

I don't think that there is such a big difference (for the Mind Flayer) between a stunned and a dazed opponent. They don't make sneak attacks, and stunned has little effect on grappling (initial touch attack might be easier. Neither a dazed nor a stunned creature can try to escape the grapple)

I don't think that it's still an effect with a spell level that could be limited by a spell like Minor Glove of Invulnerability (or whatever the 4E equivalent - if any- would be)

 

[Dunamin]

Since I'm not exactly batting 1.000 today-- what's the 5th level effect that removes stun?

My bad, I meant 5th level or under.

Anyway, perhaps they’ve also added “at will” abilities and/or increased the potency of attack forms to ensure the mind flayer remains a fearful monster.
I’m currently going through an illithid campaign, and I think the changes are a step in the right direction. Its no fun being kicked entirely out of a fight due to repeated blasts of multiple flayers!

 

[Derren]

After reading through the abilities again it dawned to me that 4E Mind Flayers will be more or less melee monsters akin to movie zombies from the 60s. Get close, eat brain/create spawn (thrall), repeat.

To me this doesn't seem right.

 

[FireLance]

By the way, was any indication given that Mind Blast can be renewed in any way except after the end of the encounter? It would be interesting if mind flayers had a third option after Bore Into Brain to tap a creature's latent psychic energy to renew its Mind Blast instead of killing it or turning it into a thrall.

 

[Dausuul]

After reading through the abilities again it dawned to me that 4E Mind Flayers will be more or less melee monsters akin to movie zombies from the 60s. Get close, eat brain/create spawn (thrall), repeat.

To me this doesn't seem right.

"Mind blast, get close, eat brain" describes illithid tactics all the way back to 1st edition. It's what they do.

Also note that while mind blast is per-encounter, it is also "renewable." Presumably this means the illithid can do something to recharge it and use it again. If so, I expect illithids will blast repeatedly from behind a screen of minions. Once the enemy is weakened, they'll close to melee range and chow down.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

The bloodied condition should not give you access to new abilities (except healing). There can be exceptions but I don't want that abilities, especially as prominent ones as Mind Blast, can only be used while wounded. This makes no sense at all.

Unless I'm mistaken, the very first 4e preview (the dragon) already introduced abilities that were only activated after the creature was bloodied.

So that ship has sailed.

I don't think that there is such a big difference (for the Mind Flayer) between a stunned and a dazed opponent.

\

There's a big difference between a mind blast that allows NO actions and a mind blast that still allows the victim to act on its own turn.

 

[Lackhand]

After reading through the abilities again it dawned to me that 4E Mind Flayers will be more or less melee monsters akin to movie zombies from the 60s. Get close, eat brain/create spawn (thrall), repeat.

To me this doesn't seem right.

Broadly I agree, but I think you're being too negative.
They still have Dominate, so it's not just the brain eat; they still have mind blast, and the eating your brains thing was always kind of your schtick.

But I do think that my perfect fix would be to give them a single-target mind blast (ego whip? ) at will, and the cone-of-stupefaction per encounter, and call it even. Because honestly, that's all it really needs to eat a party.

Here's hoping that it still strips you of actions, tho'.