New Mindflayer Info

[rkanodia]

Unless I'm mistaken, the very first 4e preview (the dragon) already introduced abilities that were only activated after the creature was bloodied.

So that ship has sailed.

Yes. When the dragon became bloodied (reduced to 50% of max hp, meaning it had 500 left(!) in the dragon's case), it got a chance to use its breath weapon as an immediate action.

 

[Intrope]

IIRC Healing Lorecall (2nd Level, Spell Compendium) can be used to remove Daze (but I'm too lazy to look it up).

And it's worth noting: the new Illithid is almost certainly not a Solo monster--so all it's abilities need to be considered in the context of it being accompanied by several allies (or thralls). Dazing a whole group of people could be really nasty if it has thralls to take advantage of this! And, we don't know if Mind Blast and Dominate are it's only per-Encounter powers or not.

 

[grimslade]

Also let's not forget that there is a paradigm shift for 4E. Mind Flayers are not a solo monster. It could be 1 Illithid and 5 thralls or a pack of 6 squid-faces. 1 Flayer Mind Blasts and 5 tentacle grapple the party. Who is the remaining PC going to help? The old mind blast with a pack of flayers would be all TPK, all the time.
No the new flayer will be a frightening encounter still. Add in psionics and mind flayers will go through epic levels.

:EDIT: Beaten to the punch

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Otherwise it's not a mind flayer.

It's also not instant death, as it needs to grapple first. Possibly four times. The beholder's petrification power now works the same way.

It seems to me to look like:

Round 1: Hey guys, I'm going to eat this dude's brain now. I'm gonna need a second here.
Round 2: Okay, I'm almost ready to eat his brain. I hope nobody stabs me or anything while I'm doing it.
Round 3: I guess I'll eat his brain now unless anyone wants to try to stop me. Last chance. Going, going... *whack* Oh, jeez. Now I have to start all over.

I suspect that the threat of brain eating is going to be largely the same as it was in 3.x: if the entire party is disabled, everyone's brains get eaten. Otherwise, it's too much of a hassle to try to grapple anyone and get beat on for the two or three rounds it takes to get into brain-eating position, giving up your other more potent attacks.

 

[Dausuul]

It seems to me to look like:

Round 1: Hey guys, I'm going to eat this dude's brain now. I'm gonna need a second here.
Round 2: Okay, I'm almost ready to eat his brain. I hope nobody stabs me or anything while I'm doing it.
Round 3: I guess I'll eat his brain now unless anyone wants to try to stop me. Last chance. Going, going... *whack* Oh, jeez. Now I have to start all over.

I suspect that the threat of brain eating is going to be largely the same as it was in 3.x: if the entire party is disabled, everyone's brains get eaten. Otherwise, it's too much of a hassle to try to grapple anyone and get beat on for the two or three rounds it takes to get into brain-eating position, giving up your other more potent attacks.

It's much more feasible if you have thralls helping you out. And the Create Thrall ability provides a solid motivation.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if eating a brain was what refreshed the mind flayer's mental blast.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Thanks for the lifeline, bud.

I really wasn't trying to justify the 3e version so much-- it's definitely on the list of must-fixes-- but rather suggesting that the fix was too far in the opposite direction.

The last thing I want is for mind flayers to NOT elicit shrieks of panic from the players. Hell, I want that. I want to be-- to remain-- one of the players who shrieks like a girl when a mind flayer shows up.

A once-per-encounter daze isn't going to do that.

I'm with you there. Mind flayers are the iconic D&D BBEG, and unless they're capable of doing some serious damage to a party, they're not going to stay that way.

While they're certainly poised to be the mastermind with thralls operating at all levels of society to push forward their insane plans, they should still be a scary encounter when you unearth the conspiracy and track them down. Some of my most memorable encounters were with flayers, on both sides of the DM screen. They should at least make veteran players grit their teeth and prepare carefully.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It's much more feasible if you have thralls helping you out. And the Create Thrall ability provides a solid motivation to do so.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if eating a brain was what refreshed the mind flayer's mental blast.

At least there's now some reason that they have thralls. I guess I'll have to make sure there's a flayer in my first 4E campaign, because I'm really itching to find out whether they've been totally nerfed, and there's really only one way to find out.

 

[Derren]

I think a normal 4E Mind Flayer encounter will be 1 weak mind flayer with several powerful thralls where the best way of survival is to take down the Flayer without being killed by the thralls.
That might not do the Mind Flayer justice but it would fit in my opinion.

 

[Lackhand]

One flayer and a bunch of thralls doesn't do the 'flayer justice?

What the heck is the Umber Hulk for?

(PS: Use 2 elites instead of 4 regular, it'll make the 'flayer stick out more, because I agree that a squid head in a crowd is perhaps less than riveting )

 

[Derren]

I mean that the flayer being the "weak link" in this encounter doesn't do the flayer justice.
From the powers the flayer has it looks to me like it depends on its minions to subdue the party before it can move in instead of using its minions as expandable meatshields.

How it should look: Flayer sends in its minions. When those are death the flayer steps in, laughs at the party who think they did win anything. *Real battle begins now*

How it looks like it will look: Flayer sends minions in. When those are death the flayer uses Mind Blast and runs away as without minions it is very weak.

I simply can't think of flayers as primary melee guys, and as they lack any ranged attack power they do look as if they are controllers who stand in the back (to dominate) and are easily killed when the enemy gets to them.