New Mindflayer Info

[Wolfspider]

I too am disappointed that mind flayers have now become more physical combatants than cerebral enemies striking from a distance. I just don't see mind flayers mixing it up in melee until they have rendered their enemies helpless, and at one mind blast an enounter, that won't happen very much at all.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well if those are the ONLY Mindflayer abilities yeah that would suck. But if it isn't or the Mindflayer has classes then I think combat can be just as robust/complicated since it is sorta the idea that the brain-sucking would be a signature move, but only done when the best opportunity arrives.

As for stunned or feared, with current rules I prefer stunned but I would like to see some good fear roles, where you don't run away, but instead are effected differently depending on the intensity. Like look at soldiers they are obviously frightened while fighting, but they don't automatically run away, but they may get sick, aim may grow faulty, etc.

Well, shaken does that, but frightened and panicked become too extreme. I think the "cowering" state could also appear a little more often on the "moral track".

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Are there actual in-game abilities that cause shaken or cowering. Since yeah if there are, definitely would like to see those, but as far as I know fear is the only one.

Which is why I think a grading amount to fear would be interesting, as in: you succed in defeating the fear-role: unphased, you just got barely influenced: shaken, mildly effected: cowering, full-blown: frightened.

 

[Dausuul]

Well, shaken does that, but frightened and panicked become too extreme. I think the "cowering" state could also appear a little more often on the "moral track".

Eh, never liked the "shaken" condition. It's just another fiddly little modifier to keep track of, and adds very little to the game. If the new "dazed" works the way DDM would suggest, I think "dazed" should kill "shaken" and take its stuff.

Are there actual in-game abilities that cause shaken or cowering. Since yeah if there are, definitely would like to see those, but as far as I know fear is the only one.

Which is why I think a grading amount to fear would be interesting, as in: you succed in defeating the fear-role: unphased, you just got barely influenced: shaken, mildly effected: cowering, full-blown: frightened.

3E has all kinds of stuff that causes shaken. Of course, a lot of it comes from monsters--e.g., a dragon's Frightful Presence.

Cowering is less common, and in my experience happens mostly to undead that get rebuked.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

"Mind blast, get close, eat brain" describes illithid tactics all the way back to 1st edition. It's what they do.

They were a lot cooler, at least in 2e. Not balanced, but cooler.

Mind flayers would try to ambush the PC scout, then use Charm/Suggestion/Dominate/whatever on him to get him to spill secrets. Then send him back, still with the mental influence, and Mindlink, so the PCs can't ambush the flayer.

When the fighting starts, the Mind Flayer tries to Dominate a target, while all of its thralls attack the PCs and guard the Mind Flayer.

In 3e, mind flayers couldn't do this. Charm is a lame combat ability, and so is Suggestion.

The 4e description didn't include all their at will or several times per day powers, however. The opening gambit might be like the one I described.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In 3e, mind flayers couldn't do this. Charm is a lame combat ability, and so is Suggestion.

While I agree that charm was so lame it had become worthless, Suggestion was still of good use, primarily because the mindflayers communicated via telepathy... so it was easy to have suggestions just 'pop' into somebody's head

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

While I agree that charm was so lame it had become worthless, Suggestion was still of good use, primarily because the mindflayers communicated via telepathy... so it was easy to have suggestions just 'pop' into somebody's head

I don't know if "kill your friend" is a reasonable Suggestion. It didn't help that WotC didn't bother to publish example Suggestions.

And I still think it's cooler out-out-combat

 

[coyote6]

So it's an even bigger nerf?

Hopefully, the D&D version of daze doesn't allow the victim a full and unlimited choice of options on their turn. That would be kind of lame ("You're dazed, except not enough to keep you from sprinting away, casting a spell, or drawing your sword and cutting a guy in half"). I really hope 4e dodges that stuff (like the 3.5e "darkness" spells that generated light as written).

If daze means you can take a minor or move action on your turn, or half an action, or some other limited class of actions, then that would be fine with me.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I too am disappointed that mind flayers have now become more physical combatants than cerebral enemies striking from a distance. I just don't see mind flayers mixing it up in melee until they have rendered their enemies helpless, and at one mind blast an enounter, that won't happen very much at all.

I could imagine a mindflayer encounter going something like this:

Single scout? Dominate him, bring him over and turn him into a thrall. Use him to lure someone else away from a party on their own

Party? Mindblast, send in thrall grab team; thralls attempt to grapple foes and bring them to the mindflayer for dinner/enthrall-ing etc.

So I wouldn't expect to see an encounter with 4 mind flayers in a knock-down drag-out melee fight.

I'd rather expect to see an encounter with a mind flayer plus thralls, where the thralls are protecting the mind flayer and attempting to grapple people and bring them to the flayer so that they can be turned into thralls too. I could see this as a potentially pretty horrific fight situation to be in, especially if the flayer is getting more thralls more quickly than old ones can be cut down...

 

[Derren]

That reminds me of something. Isn't one of the design philosophy of 4E not (among other things) to avoid situations where players are "robbed of their characters" during combat so that they just have to sit and watch?
Having a dominate ability seems to go against that philosophy.

I disagree. I like the idea that bloodied can initiate stuff.

I don't like it because it means that at some point (after a few splatbooks, or maybe even in core) there will be characters which are fighting better while bloodied and instead of always healing themselves up after resting they instead only heal up till the reach 50% of their HP (or 50HP+1) and might even go so far to damage themselves to get into the bloodied condition as this unlocks powerful abilities.