D&D (2024) New One D&D Playtest Document: 77 Pages, 7 Classes, & More!

There's a brand new playtest document for the new (version/edition/update) of Dungeons of Dragons available for download! This one is an enormous 77 pages and includes classes, spells, feats, and weapons.

Unearthed Arcana Playtest

Unearthed Arcana Playtest Materials Get Unearthed Arcana playtest content, try it out in your game, and provide feedback! Check back regularly for ...

www.dndbeyond.com

In this new Unearthed Arcana document for the 2024 Core Rulebooks, we explore material designed for the next version of the Player’s Handbook. This playtest document presents updated rules on seven classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, and Rogue. This document also presents multiple subclasses for each of those classes, new Spells, revisions to existing Spells and Spell Lists, and several revised Feats. You will also find an updated rules glossary that supercedes the glossary of any previous playtest document.

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[doctorbadwolf]

You are right, but to their point, I wouldn't know hack about the injection system as a regular car driver. It's all Voodoo magic under the hood. My players who don't read the books might not see much difference...

I’m not sure how that’s relevant. That some people have no idea how any given system works tells us nothing about any given system.

 

[TwoSix]

If you think this refutes what I said, you didn’t understand the point.

Changing things other than the chassis and basic layout can still be quite a bit more than a different coat of paint. 3 to 4e is not cosmetic, it is actual system changes. The way the game runs is different, the basic rules are very different.

Acting like it’s either meaningless change or total system overhaul is a false starting point.

I understand the point, thanks. I just disagree with it. I've played plenty of both 3e and 4e, and the differences are primarily centered around player-build focused acquisition of powers, the relative utility of out-of-combat power use, and the formalization of freeform skill checks into skill challenges (if desired).

We could get into more nuanced distinctions, sure, but that kind of defeats the whole point of what I'm talking about.

 

[tetrasodium]

You didn't answer the question though. How and when we should we be using the minority's opinion then? If we can't trust the majority's opinion (in whatever level of majority the expectation is and whatever quality of opinion we got from potentially bad polling)... what's the method for deciding to go minority opinion?

And just as an FYI... I'll be more impressed with any answer given where the person giving it is actually a PART of the majority, but still thinks the minority's decision is the way to go. Because at least then it's just not "the game should be how I want it" across the board. I still might not agree, but at least it gives me the impression the person is trying to be at least a little bit objective.

There is no reason to because the question is mere smoke pretending to be tangible. You are badly misapplying garbage* statistics to create a motte and bailey out of smoke. There are multiple points of contention where plurality and majority can be in conflict and we have not at any point been given questions capable of identifying the actual specific majority preference because the questions are always asked in isolation. When the threshold is rounddown 70% anything up to 69.999_% is no different than the "minority" you keep pounding the table about. Changing it to roundup only changes the threshold for"minority" some fraction of a percent down to to 69%.

It doesn't matter "How and when we should we be using the minority's opinion" because there are areas within the rules we can point to where those rules are attempting to simultaneously supply a halfhearted support of both and neither side where those efforts conflict with each other. People are trying to discuss those areas of dissonance within the rules and you keep clubbing that discussion with ad populum smoke based motte & bailey constructed from GiGo that wotc has not even made public for you to know.

*wotc could hypothetically be doing world class polling with the playtest surveys with some other goal in mind, but none of that polling has asked questions needed to support your question as anything other than GiGo because that polling is aimed at demonstrating something else entirely.

 

[TwoSix]

You’re reducing the games down to a level where any system specifics are meaningless, you might as well be claiming that a Honda civic and a Ford Bronco are the same thing, just a different coat of paint.

But those are roughly the same thing. You can replace one with the other with relatively little loss of utility and function; contrast replacing a Honda Civic with a Harley, a Segway, or a Vespa (to name other motorized conveyances, roughly analogous to the broader TTRPG space).

 

[TwoSix]

There is no reason to because the question is mere smoke pretending to be tangible. You are badly misapplying garbage* statistics to create a motte and bailey out of smoke. There are multiple points of contention where plurality and majority can be in conflict and we have not at any point been given questions capable of identifying the actual specific majority preference because the questions are always asked in isolation. When the threshold is rounddown 70% anything up to 69.999_% is no different than the "minority" you keep pounding the table about. Changing it to roundup only changes the threshold for"minority" some fraction of a percent down to to 69%.

Yea, @DEFCON 1, stop pounding the table so aggressively. What's the matter with you?

 

[mamba]

Like, I have 2 brothers. From our perspective, we're different ages, we have different interests and can tell ourselves apart pretty easily. But that doesn't plenty of people don't mix us up (because we're brothers and we do look pretty alike), and that we're not way more similar to each other than we are to the other 8 billion humans on the planet.

Chances are there are several people that look closer to you than either of your brothers.

I am not saying all D&D versions are entirely different, I simply am saying there are plenty of differences between them, and anyone who says they are essentially the same is not taking a close look.

The Earth is essentially a perfect sphere, if you do not look closely enough.

Honestly, if you don't think that being a 6-stat class and level based game based on fantasy combat using identical resolution systems makes 2 games at least 90% identical compared to the broader TTRPG space, I'm not sure what to tell you.

you do not need to tell me anything, we disagree about how much of a difference 10% make.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The threshold is not 50%+1, it's 70%. Worse there is absolutely no direct question over A/B preference in a lot of areas like almost anything in the entire rules glossary in every packet so far.

There have been contentious areas with minor tweaks in every packet so far, given that we are on packe6 that could result in multiple conflicting rules that each amount to a cumulative score between 306% and 414% support. "majority" is a useless statistic if the polling methodology used to determine it is built on an ever shifting black box that is sometimes simultaneously white blue grey or green.

I've got to agree with you that the survey methodology is questionable at best. I mean, how do they know WHY people like or don't like a given thing? Isn't that important? Or more precisely, isn't it important WHAT they don't like about a thing? I think it's very likely that a lot of things are down voted not for concept, but for balance, when that's not what they say they're testing. They claim that balance will come later, though I question that based on how often UA subclasses have been nerfed to the point of being nearly unplayable, or yet the Twilight cleric makes it through, but I digress. Obviously, there's stuff they learn from the write-ins, but I bet that a LOT of people don't bother to fill those boxes up with much.

I honestly wish they'd directly ask the things that they want to know, rather than some kind of cagey "Rate this class ability". Why not ask directly, "Do you think that a Paladin should be able to smite at range?" and follow up wth "Why?" A) Too "broken"; B) Doesn't fit the theme; etc; E) Other (write-in).

Honestly, I can't imagine how a well-written survey wouldn't be better for them.

 

[Hussar]

/whoops. Sorry. Nothing to see here.

 

[Hussar]

Yes, but that's a poor argument in favor of this particular level of (non-)change.

You make it sound like the testing and user involvement and WotCs desire to not ruffle even a single feather will result in this perfect edition. It won't. Not daring to tell users "no" will create D&D 5.01. At best. A rehash where loads of frustrating and mediocre stuff will be left unfixed. Nothing more and nothing less.

Likely this upcoming edition will be remembered much like 3.5 is remembered. As something that didn't really fix any of the fundamental shortcomings of the edition, and mostly meant having to relearn a lot of details with only surface-level improvements, most of which just shifted the problem areas around.

Something WotC can use to coast another 5 or 10 years before having to actually endure any type of pain in order to really fix things. I mean in the way the comprehensive and thorough reimagining of 3E that was 5E actually did fix several of the fundamental issues of d20. Where WotC proved they actually could provide meaningful improvement, even if they did it only on the verge of financial ruin.

I dunno. I barely remember anything from 3e. But 3.5 fixed most of my problems with 3e.

 

[Hussar]

Okay, fine. Then tell me how something subjective can be wrong when the majority support it? Or at least wrong enough that the majority's vote shouldn't win? In other words... in what manner should a minority's decision supercede the majority's on something subjective like this and whether it should be included in the game? How do we decide when the minority's decision is the one to go with THIS time, but not all those other times?

Because THIS time, I’m in the minority so they should make changes for me.

Obviously.