OSR New OSR game free beta test ... MAGES & MONSTERS

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Introducing the Beta test of a new fantasy roleplaying game ... MAGES & MONSTERS!

MAGES & MONSTERS is a hybrid of Old School Renaissance retro-clone design and modern d20 mechanics created using the Open Gaming License. It is designed to evoke the nostalgic feel and streamlined play of classic RPG gaming with the simpler consistent mechanics and greater freedom of choice of modern game design. It is a complete game allowing 20 levels of campaign play.

You can download the complete rulebook in pdf from EN World's download section or from the MAGES & MONSTERS page at No Name Publishing's website.

Check it out, and give us some feedback in this thread!

-- Thanks, Olgar, No Name Publishing

Edit 27 DEC 2013: Documents in the downloads section are updated to Core Beta v1.2 and Expanded Alpha v0.6.
Edit 1 JAN 2014: Uploaded Core Beat v1.3 with a series of minor corrections.
Edit 6 JAN 2014: New adventure available -- link below.

More information about MAGES & MONSTERS:

Q: How is M&M different from other OSR RPGs?
A: M&M uses the classic OSR design basis of other retro-clones, but combines them with modern d20 mechanics. Compared to the classic basic, expert, or advanced fantasy RPG, you have more consistent mechanics (example: ascending Armor Class and higher-is-always-better rolling), simplified combat process and saving throws, fewer restrictions on races and classes, and greater choice and customization in class abilities. Compared to other d20-based games, you have a more streamlined game that doesn't overload players with choices and offers easier rules adjudication, simpler stat blocks, and easier adventure design for the Game Master. Plus, it's free!

Q: Is the game complete?
A: The rules set for 20 levels of play with races and classes that correspond to choices from the classic basic and expert games is all there in the Beta pdf. We are working on additional rule options, and will refine and finalize the rulebook based on the feedback we receive on the Beta version.

Q: I see a reference to Expanded rules. What are they?
A: We're working on a list of expanded choices and optional rules to allow you to easily adjust the game to your playstyle as well as to allow for a much wider range of options in races, classes, spells, and other features. Our goal is to give you as much, if not more, choice as you has with the advanced version of the classic fantasy RPG. We hope to have an Expanded rules document available in a month or two, with racial choices like the half-elf, half-orc, gnome, redcap, and lizardfolk, and classes like the animagus, warden, templar, illusionist, skald, and beastmaster. The Alpha test version of the Expanded Rules is now available if you're like to try out the additional races and classes as part of your playtest.

Q: Where's the art?
A: We try to keep things pretty simple here at NNP, and our AFATT* philosophy means we don't have an art or layout budget. There are lots of good OSR games out there that have great artwork if that's what most interests you.

Q: Will hard copy books be available?
A: Our AFATT philosophy will ensure we continue to provide free pdf distribution of whatever we produce. We might consider making hard copies available, for a price ... but that would require an art and layout budget and some expertise we really don't have in house. So ... never say never; we'll see how this initial Beta is received.

Q: How about an adventure or two to support the playtest?
A: Glad you asked! We've converted Raiders of Oakhurst Reloaded to M&M stats and it is available as a free pdf download from the NNP website to support playtesting. We;ve also just released a sequel to that adventure for character levels 5-7: The Desolation of Oakhurst, available for download right here at EN World.

*All Free, All The Time

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

How does this differ from Castles & Crusades? The points outlined in the FAQ make it sound pretty similar, both in conception and execution.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I've never used Castles & Crusades, so I can't speak to the specific mechanical differences. My OSR inspirations were Labyrinth Lord and Dark Dungeons.

Looking at the C&C webpage, it looks like the intents are very similar. If I had to tease out a couple of differences, though, these two things jump out at me ... (1) MAGES & MONSTERS is self-contained in one pdf (all the player & game master info is in there, to include monsters and treasure to support 20 levels of play) and (2) it's free.

C&C looks like very polished products, and there's certainly a lot of material available for it. The books look superb, from what I can tell. M&M may cater to folks who want minimal investment to get started, and it can serve as an introduction and bridge to other game versions in the OSR/OGL genre.

Some specifics of M&M to consider:

- The initial pdf release has four races (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling) and five classes (Cleric, Fighter, Mage, Thief, and Swordmage -- the latter is a fighter/mage hybrid). Any race can take any class; all classes are 20-level progressions with class abilities "built in". You can fully replicate the classic basic/expert class system with this document.

- Classes allow choices of skills (a simplified attribute-based system -- proficiency or no), weapon proficiencies (with an option to increase in proficiency), and some classes have a fighting style proficiency that allows other fighting options. However, there is no feat system as in d20; choices are internal to the class.

- There are no restrictions on skill choice, or weapon choice, so that players can more readily tailor to a concept (these things are balanced in otehr ways to keep classes distinct).

- Classes have a base attack bonus and three-save progression (Fortitude, Reflex, Will) and the d20 mechanics of "roll high against a DC" is used, with a fixed DC progression (Easy, Average, Difficult, Very Difficult, Nigh Impossible)

- Classes use a unified progression; no balancing classes against each other by using XP advancement.

- Math is flatter than the base d20 system (max BAB for a 20th level fighter is +6). Attack rolls and AC stay very flat with relatively small increases over time; damage and hit points scale more.

- There is no multi-classing; it is "built in" to hybrid class designs like the Swordmage which allow an equal progression in fighting and spellcasting (but are not quite as capable in either as a single class). The plan is to increase the number of hybrid classes significantly in the Expanded rules.

- Spell lists are more limited but spell descriptions are more flexible and spells allow power scaling to compensate for fewer choices. Spell power does not depend on caster level in the majority of cases ... yet a more powerful mage can still throw a more damaging fireball than a low level mage.

- Monster stats are "one line" stat blocks like the old basic game.

Does that help?

 

[trancejeremy]

Heh, welcome to the ranks of retro-clone authors. I entered one, Monsters & Ruins (It's hard to find names for these things that haven't been used already ), in the ENWorld rpg contest this summer. Still working on polishing it.


I find the flat math in yours very interesting, but doesn't the relatively low max BAB make combat potentially slower? I see you compensated for this by lowering the armor class of monsters (the max AC seems to be 22, or -2 descending), but doesn't that break compatibility with other OSR products? Especially monster books.

Not a criticism (indeed, it's nice to see experimentation), just an observation.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I find the flat math in yours very interesting, but doesn't the relatively low max BAB make combat potentially slower? I see you compensated for this by lowering the armor class of monsters (the max AC seems to be 22, or -2 descending), but doesn't that break compatibility with other OSR products? Especially monster books.

That's part of what I'd like more playtest feedback on. From my view it seems to work, since the ACs do not scale much -- PCs should be hitting at a higher probability by late levels. Hit points are up, but the weapon proficiency allows the PC to deal more damage as proficiencies increase. Thus far it looks like that keeps combat quick even at higher levels (and also provides a mechanic to allow martial characters to do more damage and keep them closer to spellcasters, which damage dealing scales pretty well). I suspect that some of the monsters still need further adustment, though -- I keep finding fiddly bits to adjust.

Absolute compatibility with other OSR products was not the goal, but "minimal adjustment" was. Had I aimed for complete compatibility I would have either completely replicated another approach -- not much fun there -- or ended up with a lot of the power creep problems that affect full-on d20, which I also wanted to avoid. It's pretty quick to adjust low-level monsters (under 10 HD) on the fly simply by "flipping" their AC and doing a quick save conversion; higher HD monsters take a bit more judgment, though, to bring down AC and attack values. I plan to eventually share that process once I'm comfortable it is right. I think it's pretty close at this point, but something always needs tweaking.

 

[TerraDave]

I like the flatter math and the simpler spells.

But it is a crowded field. I have to stop myself from time to time from doing my own one of these.

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

You did an amazing job on this Mages & Monsters.

I'm gonna playtest it with my crew as soon as we'll be able to : this is, by far, my favorite itteration of the 3.x set of rules.

What is your schedule for the plublic playtest and the expanded rules ?

Cheers.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

You did an amazing job on this Mages & Monsters.

I'm gonna playtest it with my crew as soon as we'll be able to : this is, by far, my favorite itteration of the 3.x set of rules.

What is your schedule for the plublic playtest and the expanded rules ?

Cheers.

Thanks! I'm working on the alpha for the expanded rules right now. The races and classes are complete; if I can get the spell lists documented in the next couple of days I'd like to release that document so that playtesters can use the additional race and class options for playtesting. There will be a lot more in the expanded rules, eventually, but none of that is immediate.

The plan right now is to eventually get the complete expanded rules out in beta form, then circle back and finalize the initial rules set. The goal is to have everything complete by June. I have a couple of adventure ideas I'd like to push out, too, but finding time for all of it (between my day job, a series of research papers I need to complete over the next few months, etc) means I won't get to everything I want on the precise timeline.

Enjoy!

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

The races and classes are complete; if I can get the spell lists documented in the next couple of days I'd like to release that document so that playtesters can use the additional race and class options for playtesting.

Can't wait to read it

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Can't wait to read it

Well, you're in luck! In a (minor) Christmas miracle, I completed the spell section today and posted the file to EN World's download section.

To enhance your experience in playtesting the MAGES & MONSTERS game, here is some additional material ... the Alpha test version of the MAGES & MONSTERS Expanded Rules.

The Expanded Rules are still under development; this Alpha release rulebook contains 70 pages of the new races, classes, skill proficiencies, and new spells being incorporated into the Expanded Rules. The rest of the Expanded material will await the Beta release. We're releasing this early so that if you wish you can have additional options for playtesting.

This Expanded Rules release contains:

- 7 New races: half-elf, half-orc, gnome, planetouched, redcap, lizardfolk, and dragonian.

- 14 New classes: assassin, bard, beastmaster, berserker, druid, illusionist, inquisitor, necromancer, paladin, ranger, scout, shifter, skald, and theurge.

- Several new skill and proficiency optional rules, including guild and guildmastery.

- More than 80 new spells.

Enjoy, and Merry Christmas!