New player, new character: Looking for advice

[Theroc]

Okay guys, I said new player in the subject because, while I've done a couple 'games' of D&D they were mostly over simplified due to the DM not having time to prepare(for the one), or that was simply the way the group played(for the other).

I've been trying to figure out which type of class I will play, as the session I am not preparing for will have far more people involved, and I feel will be a more 'complete' game. As such I want to make sure I am not useless nor a burden on my group, holding my weight in some capacity or other.

A little background on the group makeup:
The session will be taking place about 80 miles from my house, (at my girlfriend's place, she's our DM). Most of the group lives near her. A local friend of mine(and maybe his younger brother) will likely be coming along as well. My local friend will likely be playing the Cleric and main group healer, but I'm not sure if he'd be available every session, as he is in college and can't always find time for things.

I believe the campaign will be homebrew(using 3.5 rules), and the current members I am aware of will most likely be playing these classes:
Fighter
Rogue(Intending to branch into a dragon-oriented prestige class, from the Draconomicon)
Cleric (Destruction/Healing Domains, Chaotic Good)

There are about 4 other potential players(not including the DM, who also will have an NPC adventuring with us in some capacity), but I'm not sure what they'd choose

Initially, I had been looking at playing a Rogue/Ninja hybrid(Using Ghost step to flank for extra sneak attacks and such), but since we may occasionally be without a healer(and already had a rogue, I began leaning towards a Druid. While it seems very different, I also liked the concept of shapeshifting and such(favorite WoW class was druid[I know this druid is a bit different]), and when I saw the Warshaper PrC in the Complete Warrior(I believe it was), I knew that'd be the next class on my list.

I'm currently looking into a race/class combination to take good advantage of Warshaper, such as a Changling or Doppleganger and such, or a lycanthropic choice.

My current resources to view are:
This Character generator: Javascript D&D 3.5 Character Generator
This SRD webpage: The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org
And the D&D wikipedia

I don't own any books, though when up at my girlfriend's, her local library actually has a rather impressive collection of books(I was amazed they had any though, so maybe it's not as impressive as I thought).

The books include:
Complete Warrior
Complete Champion(I believe)
Draconomicon
Libre Mortis
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
4th Ed. DM guide
3rd Ed Player's Handbook
Complete Psionic
Complete Scoundrel
Races of Stone
A few monstrous manuals

Anything from there are likely things that would be allowable in our campaign.

I have many questions about natural weapons and wildshaping and things about shapeshifting in general, so much so I can't remember them all right now... but I'll list the ones that come to mind.

Does the "Improved Unarmed Strike" vein of feats have any benefit on a humanoid with natural weapons?

What attributes/Abilities are most useful to a shapeshifting build(which human base stats apply while wildshaped?)

If playing a Doppleganger(or changeling or Lycanthropic) druid, how does the final Warshaper ability work? Does it grant Flash/Multi morph based on which shapeshifting ability I used, or do I need to select one or the other?

If I need to select either Flash or multi morph, which is more beneficial overall?

Does a wildshaping druid acquire the attack forms of the animal they become?(Such as a Tiger's Pounce/Rake)

Can a character take 'monster' feats if they are able to take a form which can make use of them? If so, is this worthwhile?

That's all I can think of at the moment, sorry if I seem very ignorant, as I said, my previous experiences were all rather cursory, and reading the rules often lead me to things I see as contradictory. Any help regarding these questions and advice on building an effective shapeshifter would be greatly appreciated.

 

[rgard]

Okay guys, I said new player in the subject because, while I've done a couple 'games' of D&D they were mostly over simplified due to the DM not having time to prepare(for the one), or that was simply the way the group played(for the other).

I've been trying to figure out which type of class I will play, as the session I am not preparing for will have far more people involved, and I feel will be a more 'complete' game. As such I want to make sure I am not useless nor a burden on my group, holding my weight in some capacity or other.

A little background on the group makeup:
The session will be taking place about 80 miles from my house, (at my girlfriend's place, she's our DM). Most of the group lives near her. A local friend of mine(and maybe his younger brother) will likely be coming along as well. My local friend will likely be playing the Cleric and main group healer, but I'm not sure if he'd be available every session, as he is in college and can't always find time for things.

I believe the campaign will be homebrew(using 3.5 rules), and the current members I am aware of will most likely be playing these classes:
Fighter
Rogue(Intending to branch into a dragon-oriented prestige class, from the Draconomicon)
Cleric (Destruction/Healing Domains, Chaotic Good)

There are about 4 other potential players(not including the DM, who also will have an NPC adventuring with us in some capacity), but I'm not sure what they'd choose

Initially, I had been looking at playing a Rogue/Ninja hybrid(Using Ghost step to flank for extra sneak attacks and such), but since we may occasionally be without a healer(and already had a rogue, I began leaning towards a Druid. While it seems very different, I also liked the concept of shapeshifting and such(favorite WoW class was druid[I know this druid is a bit different]), and when I saw the Warshaper PrC in the Complete Warrior(I believe it was), I knew that'd be the next class on my list.

I'm currently looking into a race/class combination to take good advantage of Warshaper, such as a Changling or Doppleganger and such, or a lycanthropic choice.

My current resources to view are:
This Character generator: Javascript D&D 3.5 Character Generator
This SRD webpage: The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org
And the D&D wikipedia

I don't own any books, though when up at my girlfriend's, her local library actually has a rather impressive collection of books(I was amazed they had any though, so maybe it's not as impressive as I thought).

The books include:
Complete Warrior
Complete Champion(I believe)
Draconomicon
Libre Mortis
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
4th Ed. DM guide
3rd Ed Player's Handbook
Complete Psionic
Complete Scoundrel
Races of Stone
A few monstrous manuals

Anything from there are likely things that would be allowable in our campaign.

I have many questions about natural weapons and wildshaping and things about shapeshifting in general, so much so I can't remember them all right now... but I'll list the ones that come to mind.

Does the "Improved Unarmed Strike" vein of feats have any benefit on a humanoid with natural weapons?

What attributes/Abilities are most useful to a shapeshifting build(which human base stats apply while wildshaped?)

If playing a Doppleganger(or changeling or Lycanthropic) druid, how does the final Warshaper ability work? Does it grant Flash/Multi morph based on which shapeshifting ability I used, or do I need to select one or the other?

If I need to select either Flash or multi morph, which is more beneficial overall?

Does a wildshaping druid acquire the attack forms of the animal they become?(Such as a Tiger's Pounce/Rake)

Can a character take 'monster' feats if they are able to take a form which can make use of them? If so, is this worthwhile?

That's all I can think of at the moment, sorry if I seem very ignorant, as I said, my previous experiences were all rather cursory, and reading the rules often lead me to things I see as contradictory. Any help regarding these questions and advice on building an effective shapeshifter would be greatly appreciated.

Playing a Druid and wildshaping requires a really good undertanding of the rules. I'd bag that role (melee offensive while wild shaped and curing folks when not) and let the others play those roles.

As you are new to the game and the party doesn't yet have an arcane type, I'd go with Warlock from the Complete Arcane. It's straight forward, easy to learn and you get to blast something every turn.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

First, welcome to the boards!

1) Noting the lack of an arcanist, I'd probably go with a Sorcerer. You don't have many options, but you can use them over and over (not quite as well as the Warlock can, but I confess, I'm no fan of the Warlock).

2) Complete Psionic, if it is used, will necessitate the use of the psionic rules from the Expanded Psionic Handbook...also found in the SRD.

Psionic Races, Classes, Skills, & Spells Index :: d20srd.org

In it, there is the Lurk, which is kind of a Psionic Rogue. The benefit of playing that over a base rogue is that you'll expand your party's repertoire- there are some nifty feats and powers out there.

Some of the other Psionic classes are also nice- a Psion or Wilder makes a nice sub for a Wizard or Sorcerer. The PsiWar is kind of like a Warrior-Cleric...and has a few tricks it does better than most other classes, like using Expansion. This is the psionic version of Enlarge, and is a bit more powerful in some respects.

3) Similarly, the Scout from Comp. Adv gives the party a rogue/ranger-esque PC...a wilderness oriented PC is something else your party seems to lack.

4) Improved Unarmed Strike really doesn't help PCs with Natural attacks...but the feat Improved Natural Attack (from the Monster Manual) does.

5) As pointed out above, the shapeshifting rules in D&D can be slightly messy. Don't be discouraged from playing a shapeshifing PC until AFTER you talk to your DM, though. One thing most of my players have done when playing shapeshifting PCs is make notecards of the shapes they use the most- it saves a LOT of time.

Druids aren't just shapeshifters, though. They are excellent summoners- summoning basically adds power (and targets for your foes to choose between) to your party very quickly- and there are several feats in the Complete books that improve the power of summoned critters.

 

[Theroc]

Well, I don't think my DM would object, though if it's as complicated as it sounds, it may cause some delays during combat.

I just loved the surprise factor of some of the warshaper abilities, especially if used with something like a changling or Doppleganger's Shape Change ability, and liked the idea of eventually wildshaping into a dragon(if I ever got epic levels and feats)

The reason I'd been looking into Druid was because it could heal if the Cleric wasn't there, and I could be a melee combatant/supporting caster if he wasn't, as the Cleric's availability is one of the ones that may not be present in every situation, leaving the group(currently) without a healer.

As for Sorcerer and Warlock, I was interested in Warlock, but my limited research made it appear that Eldritch Blast wasn't all that impressive, unless I crossclassed into Rogue and did stealth Eldritch Blasts, or something to that effect... and it just seemed the Warlock was a one trick pony who could be outdone by a sorcerer or wizard.

If I'm avoiding shapeshifting, I'd prefer something that combines arcane and melee, as the traditional stand back and cast-type character isn't generally my thing.

Offtopic technical question: How do I edit my profile/ settings to make my email accessible to other players?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) Well, the Warlock is sort of a one-trick pony, but its a pretty decent trick. That ranged touch attack 1d6 or so is pretty dependable. Typically, a Warlock can be plinking away while the Wizard or Sorcerer is hoarding a big spell for later use, and wondering where, exactly, his dagger or crossbow is...

Besides the Rogue MC option, levels of Warlock coupled with a Ranger or Fighter, you'll quickly gain the feats to let you fire into combat without fear of nailing your partymates. There are other options besides...

2) Your analysis of the Druid is pretty good- they are among the most flexible of classes.

3) Combining arcane prowess with combat skill is a bit complex in D&D. There are MANY options, including simple multiclassing (simple or convoluted), the WarMage (CompArc), Duskblade (PHB2), and the Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana/SRD) base classes, and PrCls like the Spellsword (CompWar). Then there are feats like Ascetic Mage (CompAdv) which lets you multiclass Monk and Sorcerer or Arcane Strike (CompWar) which lets you channel spell energy into your weapon attacks.

Other options include taking Still Spell, using only spells that have no somatic components, or going really weird like a "Mage-Brute" (who uses the Heritage Feats- specifically Draconic in my case- to channel spell energy into breath weapons and the like, becoming a spellcaster who doesn't cast spells).

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239192-forked-thread-mage-brute-revisited.html

The advantage of the "Mage-Brute" is that the Heritage abilities are supernatural and aren't affected by arcane spell failure induced by wearing armor. The disadvantage is that, ultimately, you're sacrificing arcane power because spell potency scales up much better than the abilities granted by the Heritage feats.

(They're still loads of fun, though!)

 

[Theroc]

Well, I may try Warmage or something, because I want to be more upfront and pummel things, or sneak behind something and decide the battle in a couple swings(if I'm lucky)... if I move away from shapeshifting.

I once played a Drow assassin type character on a board that used a Fantasy setting but had no mechanics, so I don't think any class in D&D quite fits.

Streea was an Assassin in a typical Drow Underdark city(I think I named it Verathrax), but grew weary and unable to accept it's matriarchal system, being a man who hated being at the mercy of another. In any case, he up and killed the Drow Priestess who had claimed him and fled the city.

The style of combat I had imagined for him was similar to Drizzt, except focusing less on melee and more on crippling before the encounter even begins. Poison sleeping darts, darkness spells, stealth attacks.

Most like Ranger who can sneak attack and cast arcane spells to some extent.

Haven't seen anything that really enabled it, and I didn't wanna have to wrack my brains trying to come up with a crossclass/PrC to do it.

Just thought I'd clarify a bit on the other type of character I'd like to play, since you guys seem to think I should steer clear of druids/shapeshifters.

Also, Offtopic technical question: How do I edit my profile/ settings to make my email accessible to other players?

 

[bigbaddragon]

Hi Theroc,

Reading through your posts I figure you could give it a try with Favored Soul class from Complete Divine. I know CD isn't one of the books you listed but this can easily be fixed . Favored soul is divine caster with all good saves, medium BAB and d8 HD. He casts spells from the cleric's list but he casts spontaneously (like sorcerer) and main casting stat is charisma. The DCs for your spells are wisdom dependent which is the main downside of the class but you can load up on party buffs, self buffs and healing spells and make it doesn't matter that much. Also you would be automatically proficient with your deity's favored weapon (at come point you'd get weapon focus and weapon specialization for that weapon). With right spell selection (Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor ...) and power attack you would be formidable front line combatant.

Another option I thought of was Rogue/Cleric going into Shadowbane Stalker from Complete Adventurer. Its a prestige class that advances Cleric's spellcasting and sneak attack. It also gives some stealth boosting options and bonus to some skills, though the bonus is competence bonus and wouldn't stack with with skill boosting items. Oh, and you'd get detect evil ability to use at will.

Regarding your mail ... I cant find anything about displaying your mail but you can always put it into your signature if you want. Also, try clicking names of the poster's, you'll get a menu with some options including sending an email to the user you just clicked on.

Hope any of this helps

 

[Theroc]

Favored Soul might be cool, but as I'm strapped moneywise and I don't believe that was one of the available books at the local library, I doubt I'd be able to access the book, meaning I'd be unable to doublecheck things during the campaign if asked.

If I do get my hands on it, I'll definitely take a look.

At the moment I've another question, about the Soulknife, which seems kinda like a rogue who doesn't need to sneak. Is there anything a Soulknife can do with 2 power points unless he crossclasses? Or does the acquiration of those points simply allow him to maintain a psionic focus for psionic based abilities?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

At the moment I've another question, about the Soulknife, which seems kinda like a rogue who doesn't need to sneak. Is there anything a Soulknife can do with 2 power points unless he crossclasses? Or does the acquiration of those points simply allow him to maintain a psionic focus for psionic based abilities?

MmmmmmmMMmmm- a nice can 'o' worms you've found.

There have been a couple of threads about those power points, and you've described the 2 major positions quite well. Some have even asserted that the power points aren't necessary for manifesting his mind blade (despite some text to the contrary).

Personally, I like the class, but many find it underpowered. There are reasons for this:

1) Many people run Soulknives like Fighers. Despite their (light!) armor and D10 HD, they're not designed for stand-up fights, though- they don't have the BAB or a heavy weapon. They're also not rogues. They're too heavily armored to be quiet, and they don't have the skills or skill points to fill that role.

Overall, they're more like Monks or Rangers, hit-and-run strikers. If they get a few levels under them, they can be quite a bit like anti-spellcaster assassins. Instead of depending on the mindblade, you'd be well advised to carry some kind of real weapon, possibly a spear and/or a short-sword plus a shield, maybe a crossbow, sling or javelins. Think Hoplite or Roman Centurion.

2) There is a ruling that says that it takes a certain amount of time to manifest the blade, and more time to shape it. Once the blade is dispelled- voluntarily or not- it must be re-manifested...and then in its base form, starting the process over again.

Many people I know rule that the mindblade retains the last shape it took, shortening that cycle to make the class more playable.

3) Other than being required for manifesting the blade or certain Feats, the PP are basically useless to a single-classed Soulknife, and if he gets tagged with a PP sapping effect, he's screwed.

OTOH, they also open up some nifty multiclassing options, like Pyrokineticist, a PrCl requiring a PP reserve of 1, but chock full of nifty powers.

4)

 

[Theroc]

lol, now my focus is somewhat divided, as I discovered EN has campaigns it runs in Play By Post format, and am attempting to create a character for there, having trouble figuring out what to do.

It'd likely be easier if I had physical access to all the materials I need, but those are 80 miles away.

Anyways, was thinking of making a blacksmith/fighter combination, but noticing that the skillpoints seem very low, as I can't afford to dump much into intelligence abilitywise without gimping myself as a warrior, since I primarily need str, dex and con, for combat purposes.

Any advice on setting up abilities in a 30 point-buy setup leaving me able for combat but not skilless?