New PrC: Tears of the Shadow Mistress

[Clay_More]

Yeah, thx for the PDF, it looks good (better than the forum anyway).

The Weathered... sounds like the character from Ghost Dog perhaps? Not sure about what Robert Frost writes, know the two others vaguely. Well, sounds like you want to make a kind of
"forced / moved to have a cause". If im not wrong, all four of your mentioned characters all had a cause, but they were causes none of them had selected themselves. Snake Plisken got his cause on gunpoint, little choice there. Porter gut his cause on gunshot instead, kinda gives you reason for a cause. Blade Runner and Mad Max were both a little bit more self-selected, but not much.

 

[Minaret]

Re: RE:Shadow Mistress

Good prestige class overall. I like the writing as well. I agree with the will save increase too because I think once your abilities are noticed you will be one of the first in line for the spellcaster foes (if they survive that long).

One question I had concerning the symbol. If I read it correctly, they are embellished with this symbol on their lower back (kind of like a tattoo). This cannot be removed by non-magical means. A wish spell would remove it until dusk of the next sunset. Does this mean that someone casts a WISH spell and the thing still comes back. Isn't that kind of a waste of a wish spell?

Can the Tears be excommunicated from this order by doing something not in line with thier beliefs etc. Just a few thoughts, not meant to be a rip on your class, don't take it that way.

Good job overall!

First, thanks for the feedback. I bumped up the Will Save to match the Attack bonus. That way it is just a little lower than the Reflex Save.

Second, the symbol and related paragraph are meant more as flavor text. The tattoo/brand is a form "stigmata" that symbolizes that Tear's sacrifice and the Mistress's embrace. The fact that a "Wish" spell can only remove the symbol for a day is meant to show the powerful connection that the Mistress has with her Tears. If you think killing a "swan" is going to cause you grief, taking-out a Tear is to make you fearful of sunset for a long time to come. ;-)

Third, I never really thought about the "excommunication" angle. This is a legitimate concern. I don't think the Maiden of the Twilight Path is going to take kindly to a Tear who wants to dry her eyes and set herself up as a bandit queen. Do you have any creative suggestions on how to handle a lady that leaves the path?

Fourth, no "rip" taken. I like the comments and conversation. It helps me make a better PrC. Thanks.

- Craig

 

[Stalker0]

I also like the Prc, although is the alignment restrictition need to be that restrictive? What about Chaotic evil taking this class?

Also, for the shadow familar, instead of cover, what about concealment? I think it makes more sense for a shadowy character.

And lastly, shadow's embrace- if you have 1 hp left and you pass the check then you take no damage? Because at high levels, most anyone would be willing to give up 200xp to avoid dieing, since 200 xp is nothing at high levels.

Otherwise I like it, it has a lot of flavor, and everything ties in together very well.

 

[seasong]

Very nice flavor text. YOINK.

 

[Minaret]

I also like the Prc, although is the alignment restrictition need to be that restrictive? What about Chaotic evil taking this class?

Also, for the shadow familar, instead of cover, what about concealment? I think it makes more sense for a shadowy character.

And lastly, shadow's embrace- if you have 1 hp left and you pass the check then you take no damage? Because at high levels, most anyone would be willing to give up 200xp to avoid dieing, since 200 xp is nothing at high levels.

Otherwise I like it, it has a lot of flavor, and everything ties in together very well.

1) Since the class takes on a guardian role, albeit a very selective one, I didn't think CE characters would be that altruist. On the other hand, a CG character may have too many moral constraints to do whatever it takes to save a "swan" or dispatch a "jackal."

2) I started with "concealment", but I changed it when I wanted the familiar to take on more of a insubstantial, spiritual, role for the Tear. It's almost like having the familiar represent a symbolic connection to the Mistress herself. In this way, "cover" provides the game mechanic to treat the familiar as if it weren't wholly corporeal.

3) WOW, THANKS. I see your point. THE "CHASING SHADOWS" POWER IS UNBALANCED. I included the text pertaining to the "1 hp" always remaining if the Tear makes her Hide check to insure that a successful check always allowed the Tear to live. However, the way the power is written there is no penalty for taking overwhelming damage. As a quick fix, I could add the requirement that any successful check where half the damage from the attack would still reduce the Tear to less than 1 hp would invoke a +5 modifier to the DC. How does this sound?

Thanks again for the comments, they really helped.

- Minaret

 

[Minaret]

I would say, that leaving the Tears doesn't sound plausible. The organisation, to my ears, doesn't sound like a strict one. Seems like it's members move pretty much on their own accord. It would like leaving the harpers in FR, its hard actually leaving something so open-minded.

I do though think they might be able of being excommunicated, from the way I understood the description. Even though, sounding as an order that chooses you, without you choosing it, leaving it would be hard. Most of the members of the Tears sound as if though they were almost "destined" to become Tears from their upbringing.

CORRECT ON ALL POINTS.

The Tears aren't really part of a guild or organization. It is what they've become because of what they've experienced and how they reacted to those experiences. There is no external code or creed to follow or breach.

However, if the Tear's actions ever change her to the point that she isn't true to the PrC any longer, the Mistress may decide to "un-embrace" the wayward lass. At a minimum I would say all specialty powers, except Sneak Attack, and the ability to cast "shadow" spells of a higher level would be lost. And once un-embraced, always un-embraced. In an extreme case, the ex-Tear may find herself labeled a "jackal" and stalked accordingly.

- Minaret

 

[GuruOfAlgary]

Hi again,

Perhaps a way to integrate the "knowledge" of what the Tear is/does would be during the embrace. The Mistress would not only embrace, but imbue the Tear with the knowledge she needs (kind of a vulcan mind-meld if you will). This could be descriptively detailed in a paragraph in your text too. And if you made the embrace a kind of erotically written thing ala Clive Barker it would kick ass too.

The PrC I'm working on has as set regiment of what it takes to become a member of the group, but it also lays down what could cause them to become banished. I think it's important because it keeps the players walking along a path with their characters to keep them in check. To quote SPIDERMAN- "With great power, comes great responsibility"

 

[Storminator]

3) WOW, THANKS. I see your point. THE "CHASING SHADOWS" POWER IS UNBALANCED. I included the text pertaining to the "1 hp" always remaining if the Tear makes her Hide check to insure that a successful check always allowed the Tear to live. However, the way the power is written there is no penalty for taking overwhelming damage. As a quick fix, I could add the requirement that any successful check where half the damage from the attack would still reduce the Tear to less than 1 hp would invoke a +5 modifier to the DC. How does this sound?

Thanks again for the comments, they really helped.

- Minaret

I've seen a few powers similar to Chasing Shadows (Phoenix Child in Beyond Monks, Eldritch Defense in Quint Wizard) and usually they only work when the hp goes from 0 to -9. If hp goes to -10, you die.

The arcane spellcasting requirement is a bit strange. It's only barely a requirement. 1 level of sorcerer or 2 levels of wizard with an INT bonus qualifies. Perhaps you could require a specific arcane spell, like Darkness or Darkvision. The requirement is a little stiffer but not too bad.

What about classes like bards that can meet the requirements but don't have familiars? Or what about a reformed Assassin? Rogue 5/Assassin 7/Tear X. Do they gain a familiar?

Pretty cool over all. Can I get the pdf?

pncstorm@attbi.com

PS

 

[Minaret]

Hi again,

Perhaps a way to integrate the "knowledge" of what the Tear is/does would be during the embrace. The Mistress would not only embrace, but imbue the Tear with the knowledge she needs (kind of a vulcan mind-meld if you will). This could be descriptively detailed in a paragraph in your text too. And if you made the embrace a kind of erotically written thing ala Clive Barker it would kick ass too.

The PrC I'm working on has as set regiment of what it takes to become a member of the group, but it also lays down what could cause them to become banished. I think it's important because it keeps the players walking along a path with their characters to keep them in check. To quote SPIDERMAN- "With great power, comes great responsibility"

1) Adding at bit more explanation and flavor text isn't a bad idea. It would help clarify what motivates these women to take-up the lifelong role of a Tear (I specifically didn't save "burden" because to them the role isn't a heavy yoke that weighs them down -- it's a calling that gives them a purpose).

2) The Tears don't live by a fixed code or creed that could cause them to be expelled from an organization. A Tear is more what these ladies are than what they belong to. However, I could provide some general "principles" that would describe how a typical Tear treads the Twilight Path (see below). They are only descriptions of how a Tear might behave. The purpose in presenting them is to help a Player or DM role-play the PrC as well as adjudicate how far a Tear needs to stray from the 'Path before the SoS (Sirine of Shades) withdraws her embrace.

- Actively seeks-out "swans" even at the expense of other obligations (it is not uncommon for a Tear to set aside current tasks to aid a swan).

- Swans are to be removed from harm's way before all else (it is irrelevant how many of the soulless masses and jackals need to be sacrificed to meet this end).

- Once saved from danger, swans are counseled to find the Twilight Path and then they're set-free to continue their journey (Tears are not pampering nannies for a swan -- they are guides and guardians).

- Prowling jackals that gorge themselves upon prey that they poach from the Twilight Path are to be stalked and destroyed (a Tear shows no mercy to these feral beasts as she guts them. She will not abide by any bargains made with these predators. Given the chance, she'll even side-step negotiations agreed to by her non-Tear companions).

 

[Minaret]

I've seen a few powers similar to Chasing Shadows (Phoenix Child in Beyond Monks, Eldritch Defense in Quint Wizard) and usually they only work when the hp goes from 0 to -9. If hp goes to -10, you die.

The arcane spellcasting requirement is a bit strange. It's only barely a requirement. 1 level of sorcerer or 2 levels of wizard with an INT bonus qualifies. Perhaps you could require a specific arcane spell, like Darkness or Darkvision. The requirement is a little stiffer but not too bad.

What about classes like bards that can meet the requirements but don't have familiars? Or what about a reformed Assassin? Rogue 5/Assassin 7/Tear X. Do they gain a familiar?

Pretty cool over all. Can I get the pdf?

pncstorm@attbi.com

PS

1) The one feature I really want to keep with this power is the fact that if the Tear makes her DC, she survives regardless of the damage dealt. With that said, it is unlikely the Tear will be able to overcome massive amounts of damage since the DC would exceed her ability to meet it. Secondly, the Tear is also constrained by the requirement that she be within 2 feet per rank of Hide to execute the power (I am thinking of changing the requirement to 5 per rank of Hide so it works better with Mini's).

2) I was trying to have the requirement lean in the Sor's vs Wiz's favor. If I required the ability to cast say, "3rd level spells," it would be easier for wizards to meet the requirements. However, to make the hurdle a bit higher I could require the ability to cast "at least 9 arcane spells" as well as spell "X." I'm still thinking about what spell X might be. I would like to marry the ideas of "seduction" with "shadowiness" while keeping the spell level as low as possible -- suggestions are welcome.

3) Yes. Under the description of the Shadow Familiar power (not the template) the text states, "If the Tear does not possess a familiar, she may choose one." However, I don't really explain how it works. I could add a sentence or two to be a little clearer. A character without previous access to a familiar would choose one as if she were a 1st level sor'/wiz' and use the creature's base abilities for the template.

Once again, good comments, they're forcing me to think about the mechanics in a broader sense. One other change that I'm thinking about is adding a base "+1 AC bonus" to the Seduction's Shield power. This way the Tear would always get at least a +1 bonus from the power. By adjusting the power so slightly, I could also remove the "+1 Chr mod" requirement to become a Tear -- I never liked using an ability score based modifier as a requirement.

I would be happy to send you a PDF. Did you want the slightly outdated one I have now, or did you want to wait a few weeks until the changes to the PrC are "locked?"

General note to everyone:
I'm planning on accepting reviews/suggestions for about another week. Then I'm going to finalize the PrC and update the PDF. Thanks again for all the help. It's appreciated.

- Minaret