New Psion Character Suggestions

[KarinsDad]

How is it powergaming when the free feat is a useless one?

Are you reading the same books as me?

The free feat is not useless. If Warforged with Adamantine Body did NOT get the free feat, then Warforged with Adamantine Body Wizards, Sorcerers, Monks, Druids, Barbarians, Bards, etc. would be at -4 to attacks and movement skill rolls such as Ride.

Sure, Adamantine Body is less useful at higher levels. But at low to mid levels, it is a HUGE advantage over a normal feat, partially because it includes the Armor Proficiency (heavy) feat for free. Two feats for the price of one.

Re: swimming, the books don't say anything on the subject as I recall, but I wouldn't think warforged are buoyant in water, making the issue of how well they can swim a moot one.

Again, this is not moot.

A fighter in chainmail (-5 ACP, same penalty as Adamantine Body) is at -10 for swimming.

A warforged in adamantine body (again, -5 penalty) is at -5 for swimming.

That is a significant difference in penalty for two armors that should be penalized exactly the same.


This is the reason I stated that the designers should have kept it an ACP and then added the Armor Proficiency (heavy) feat for free. When you insert special rules for things, it ends up messing something up somewhere else like here for swimming.


If you were a computer programmer whose job it was to create a character creation program for DND, you would be cursing the designers for creating yet another special rule for you to code in. The armor penalty for swimming is 2*ACP except in the case of these feats.

It wasn't necessary.

And for some people who do not like DND, the abundance of special rules for special circumstances are what turn them off from the game. 3.5 cleaned some of that up, but it keeps creeping back in with supplement books.

 

[Creamsteak]

A computer programer would program the adjustments into the feat, not into the rules for armor check penalty. The feat would provide a -5 penalty to those skills (entirely seperate from ACP). Doesn't sound hard to me.

 

[KarinsDad]

A computer programer would program the adjustments into the feat, not into the rules for armor check penalty. The feat would provide a -5 penalty to those skills (entirely seperate from ACP). Doesn't sound hard to me.

I didn't say it was hard.

I said it was just another special rule to have to code.

Then, when something changes, you have even more special rules to code.

For example, if a supplement book comes up with a new skill that uses x2 ACP modifier (like swimming does) or x1/2 ACP modifier or some other ACP rule, you then have to go back in and recode for the warforged in the adamantine body and mithral body sections.

If they would have used ACP + auto-Armor Proficiency feat, then a change like this for a new skill in a supplement book would not require a rework to the code. Adding in the new skill would just work across the board.

It is much nicer (both for players and programmers) if the game designers just try to follow the standard rules whenever possible. IMO. Fewer special rules to remember.

As is, players of warforged with a body feat and/or GMs with those in their games have to remember the special rule that swimming is x1 penalty in this case, but x2 penalty for armor in other cases. A special rule with no good reason for it.

 

[Nightfall]

Me, I'd go Gnoll Wilder, focusing either on Pyromancer or some other energy type.

Another option, use Hyperconscious, and take a Pr-class out of there.

*can't think of any good races from there that make good 1st level characters...*

 

[Spatula]

Are you reading the same books as me?

The free feat is not useless. If Warforged with Adamantine Body did NOT get the free feat, then Warforged with Adamantine Body Wizards, Sorcerers, Monks, Druids, Barbarians, Bards, etc. would be at -4 to attacks and movement skill rolls such as Ride.

Well, not by the rules as written.

(a) Warforged w/ Adamantine Body aren't actually wearing heavy armor. They're considered to be wearing heavy armor, which may impact their class abilities (a warforged barbarian wouldn't get the increased movement, for example). This isn't obvious to some (the phrase, "considered to be wearing heavy armor," could be interpreted a few different ways), but has since been clarified by the designers.

(b) Armor proficiency does not remove armor check penalties to skills. It removes the armor check penalty to attack rolls only. A warforged barbarian with Adamantine Body suffers a -5 penalty to Balance, Climb, Jump, etc. checks, regardless of the proficiency issue.

(c) Armor check penalties don't apply to Ride. The mount is doing most of the movement, not the rider.

(d) The penalty is -5, not -4.

Sure, Adamantine Body is less useful at higher levels. But at low to mid levels, it is a HUGE advantage over a normal feat, partially because it includes the Armor Proficiency (heavy) feat for free. Two feats for the price of one.

But the feat can only be used with the warforged's body in this case. It's not the same as Heavy Armor proficiency for a humanoid, which allows said humanoid to wear any heavy armor it finds without suffering attack penalties. All it allows (by your interpretation of the rules) is for the warforged to use its own body, since warforged can't actually wear armor.

And of the classes that don't start with Heavy Armor prof, every single one is impacted negatively by the wearing of such. So, the warforged is only penalizing itself in those cases by taking the Adamantine Body feat. Requiring another feat on top of that to avoid a hefty attack penalty is adding insult to injury.

If you were a computer programmer whose job it was to create a character creation program for DND, you would be cursing the designers for creating yet another special rule for you to code in. The armor penalty for swimming is 2*ACP except in the case of these feats.

The warforged is already a collection of special rule headaches. They're constructs, BUT... (long list of exceptions to the construct type follows).

 

[Urbanmech]

Actually, my friend and I both are playing psions and he is playing a kalashtar psion.

So, I didn't want to rain on his parade by picking the same "psion leaning" race.

Actually after reading the latest Dragonshards on the gnomes of Zilargo, I think a gnome telepath or seer would be a very cool character. Load up on the spying and intrigue skills. Read thoughts or clairvoyantly spy on people. Clairvoyant Sense is pretty cool because it allows sight and hearing unlike the arcane and divine versions.