New Race: Is this balanced?

[Acmite]

Re: Re: New Race: Is this balanced?

In conclusion: I like both your design and idea, I'd like to have such a race in my campaign also!

Well, thanks!

 

[Acmite]

I like the 'fur-on-fire' idea. How about -4 on Reflex saves vs. catching on fire. Very bad, but also very specific.

-- Nifft

I like the idea of a penalty that's specific to the race, but I had a much shorter-haired race in mind than I think this suggests.

I'm considering a penalty in bright-light as suggested above by Merak.

As far as the tail issue--they are supposed to be more cat-humanoid than bipedal-cats. Something like Gnolls, or Quaggoth (sp?).

 

[Nail]

I'm considering a penalty in bright-light as suggested above by Merak.

FWIW, I think that's a good idea.

I've toyed with the idea of having all races with darkvision also have the penalty Light Sensitivity. This seems to make logical sense (races adapted for the dark are not also adapted for the light), and it also takes a bit of the sting out of those omega-powerful underdark races.

 

[Technik4]

Add me to the list of people who think they should get a dex bonus. I mean, just look at the spell "Cats Grace" I think balance makes more sense than climb, and I think it would be better to say something in the flavor text about how cat people are generally frightened of water, but dont give them a will save vs water or anything. Kinda like the dwarf predeliction towards gems and gold, its implied and flavor.

+2 Dex, -2 Cha (Cats have a certain grace, but they rub people the wrong way with their indifferent attitudes)
30 ft base move
+2 Jump, Balance, Move Silently. (Cats have long legs which lend themselves easily to some physical tasks)
+2 Reflex Saves vs [Ice] or [Water] (Cats hate to get wet)
Darkvision 60 ft. (Cats have interesting eyes)
Weapon Finesse: Unarmed
Favoured Class: Monk

I think the free weapon finesse is fine. It is about as useful to every class (except monk, who it helps quite a bit if youre a dex based monk) as 4 free weapon prof. An elven monk can use a bow and a sword, but a cat one always has finesse.

I didnt put any "bad" modifiers (like swim) because frankly ECL +0 rarely have them (see PHB). Also, while their neg isnt as bad as elves, their skill bonuses are generall less useful (listen and spot being almost the most useful bonus in the game). Also I decided not to give a Str negative because then you rule out the strong monk, and make all cats dex-based. Without the neg, they have to decide, take advantage of finesse or go for str and damage. Most monks, imo, need str to be successful anyway, even if they have finesse.

Also a small thing, but with a BAB prerequisite of 10 or so, I would allow a Cat to take evasion as a feat, just fits their race. By that point a character could have invested 20,000 into a ring of evasion, though a feat is also very important. Plus I can just see cat fighters dodging fireballs at high levels

Thats my take,

Technik

 

[Gideon]

Why the finesse anyway? These creatures don't have claws, at least it is not listed in the description. Maybe take out the feat and give them the speed back or the option of scent as a first level feat depending on how close they are to cats.

 

[Acmite]

Why the finesse anyway? These creatures don't have claws, at least it is not listed in the description. Maybe take out the feat and give them the speed back or the option of scent as a first level feat depending on how close they are to cats.

Giving them an increased sized die for unarmed attacks (ie: claws) would definitely push them into ECL+1 territory, so I never really considered it. The weapon finesse is there as a nod to cats, and to represent the most common fighting style for the race.

I hate the term, but Scent is the closest thing to broken I think 3E has.

Scent overcomes way, way to many special abilities and spells for it to be considered an option.

Example: Many animals have scent. Those animals really know where a displacer beast is. Common dog defeats a major magical predator's whole advantage. Dog + Wizard with fireball = one dead kitty (and probably the dog, too).

I think removing the speed increase was a good choice, and that was the only thing I, myself, was leery of in the original design.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Acmite]

FWIW, I think that's a good idea.

I've toyed with the idea of having all races with darkvision also have the penalty Light Sensitivity. This seems to make logical sense (races adapted for the dark are not also adapted for the light), and it also takes a bit of the sting out of those omega-powerful underdark races.

Hmmm...and it's a restriction players could overcome by taking a feat if they so desired....

I'll have to think this over. A penalty like this might be enough to add something small back in.....

 

[Acmite]

<snip>

+2 Dex, -2 Cha (Cats have a certain grace, but they rub people the wrong way with their indifferent attitudes)
30 ft base move
+2 Jump, Balance, Move Silently. (Cats have long legs which lend themselves easily to some physical tasks)
+2 Reflex Saves vs [Ice] or [Water] (Cats hate to get wet)
Darkvision 60 ft. (Cats have interesting eyes)
Weapon Finesse: Unarmed
Favoured Class: Monk

I think the free weapon finesse is fine. It is about as useful to every class (except monk, who it helps quite a bit if youre a dex based monk) as 4 free weapon prof. An elven monk can use a bow and a sword, but a cat one always has finesse.

I didnt put any "bad" modifiers (like swim) because frankly ECL +0 rarely have them (see PHB).
Also a small thing, but with a BAB prerequisite of 10 or so, I would allow a Cat to take evasion as a feat, just fits their race.

With Monk as a favoured class, many members of this race will already have Evasion as a class ability. I would assume that many elite soldiers/fighters would/could have a level of monk somewhere in the mix.

I don't like the bonus against ice or water. It's full of flvour, but I don't like the mechanical effect. It's something I would rather deal with through flavour text if I include it.

My original picture of these guys was more like a stealthy version of a bear/cat race. Tough, but gracefull. And, at the time, I felt a better way to deal with this was to give a Con bonus instead of a Dex bonus.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable giving a Dex bonus and Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. It seems like too much.

I like the Dex bonus idea, but I think I'd rather stick to the Weapon Finesse, so the ability mod will likely stay at +2 Con.

I completely agree with you on the reasons for the Cha penalty (which I believe I mentioned above), so that will stay.

The Swim penalty represents the near absence of large, standing bodies of water near their homes in the underdark and most cat's dislike of it.

While Balance is a trait many cats possess, it's most;y a function of their tails. Since this race has no tail, I thought it best to focus on another strength--Climb.

 

[Nifft]

The way I see it, racial bonuses are free to augment each other. Consider Dwarves:

- Darkvision and Stonecunning
- +2 Con and +2 save vs. Poison


Consider Elves:

- +2 Dex and Rapier Proficency (and Bows)
- +2 Search and Automagic Searching


Consider Halflings:

- +2 Dex and +2 to Move Silently
- +2 Dex and +1 attack with thrown weapons


So, just as long as you are augmenting their racial penalties, I think it's fine to augment their racial bonuses. Consider this:

* Small size
* Base speed 30 feet (fast for size)
* -2 Str, +2 Dex
* Darkvision
* +2 Climb, Jump, Move Silently
* -2 Swim
* Feat: Weapon Finesse (Unarmed)
* Favored Class: Monk

-- Nifft