New rogue special abilities.

[Darklone]

If you don't like PrClasses, go for it, it fits. And death attacks... think about that MM feat Ability focus

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Thanks for the input. I think I'll make both of these rogue special abilities and do away with the PRCs entirely and I'll add fast sneak too.

 

[MichaelH]

I would not be comfortable making Death Attack part of the Rogue class. However, simply convert it to a feat. Rogues may choose a feat instead of a special ability. Of course, anyone else meeting the prerequisites could take the feat, too, making for some interesting "assassins."

 

[sledged]

I would not be comfortable making Death Attack part of the Rogue class. However, simply convert it to a feat. Rogues may choose a feat instead of a special ability. Of course, anyone else meeting the prerequisites could take the feat, too, making for some interesting "assassins."

Ok, I'll bite. Why don't you feel comfortable about granting it to one class, but yet have no inhibitions about making it accessable to (possibly) all classes?

 

[UltimaGabe]

Citing UA leads me to my followup. The ranger gets HIPS. At this point, so what if the rogue gets it? He is giving up another SA to get it, at a minimum, so he can hide as well as a ranger.

The Ranger gets Hide in Plain Sight in forest surroudings ONLY. It's quite limited when compared to the Shadowdancer ability. But you all seem to think it's perfectly safe to give it to a rogue, who's now going to be doing Sneak Attack damage to every single creature he feels like attacking unless they have Blindsight. If you feel like that's balanced, go ahead- but if you're the DM, you're gonna be wishing you hadn't, I promise you.

That being said, if you're so intent on giving such an ability to Rogues, I just want to point out that in a recent Rules of the Game article on Wizards.com, Hide in Plain Sight takes a Move-Equivalent action. So if he ever wants to be hiding in plain sight, he can only make one attack a round, or one move action.

 

[ARandomGod]

...

That being said, if you're so intent on giving such an ability to Rogues, I just want to point out that in a recent Rules of the Game article on Wizards.com, Hide in Plain Sight takes a Move-Equivalent action. So if he ever wants to be hiding in plain sight, he can only make one attack a round, or one move action.

And that ruling is what makes ME think that it's not too powerful. That makes the sneak attack portion of HiPS roughly equal to improved feint, which also allows only one attack per round while being used. OK, it's a little more powerful than the improved feint option, because it's skill powered by hide instead of by bluff... and rogues are more likely to have a high hide... and because it adds in extra hiding that you wouldn't have, whereas imp feint doesn't... but I don't see that as a problem.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I've never seen anyone fail a death attack DC before...

I did. OK, it was mostly common folk, but I think the first time my assassin used death attack, it was on some sort of celestial - and it worked. I loved that (especially since my character was fey'ri, so it was more or less personal)

 

[niastri]

I would not be comfortable making Death Attack part of the Rogue class. However, simply convert it to a feat. Rogues may choose a feat instead of a special ability. Of course, anyone else meeting the prerequisites could take the feat, too, making for some interesting "assassins."

What would you use for the prerequisites for the Death Attack feat? Anything save or die should have tough prerequisites. I am curious what you think would be suitable.

 

[MichaelH]

Ok, I'll bite. Why don't you feel comfortable about granting it to one class, but yet have no inhibitions about making it accessable to (possibly) all classes?

I don't think it is a rogue specific ability. It does not really fit the class per se, IMO. If you don't have an assassin PrC, why not just make Death Attack a feat. Then you could have evil ranger "assassins," for example. Why should only high level rogues be assassins? That was my feeling.

 

[MichaelH]

What would you use for the prerequisites for the Death Attack feat? Anything save or die should have tough prerequisites. I am curious what you think would be suitable.

It was just a suggestion. I have not really given it much thought. In my game, you would have to take a level of Assassin, and my players are not evil.

Perhaps the prerequisites should be something like this. BAB +4, Hide 6 ranks, Move Silently 6 ranks, Sneak Attack ability, non-good alignment.