New rules for character creation

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The following are rough drafts of the character creation for my campaign. I've yet to add flavour and texture to the process, these are just the rules. Suggestions and constructive criticism would be appreciated.

Notes:

The Grim'N'Gritty rules are used in my campaign, but adapted for a classless system. Characters begin with their constitution scores as hp, with an additional 1 hp every level. Armor transforms damage taken to subdual damage (example, full-plate can reduce a maximum of 8 normal damage to subdual damage with every hit, sort of a damage reduction). Weapons have penetration values, which show how good they are at penetrating (ignoring the damage reduction from) armour. Magic is extremely rare and learned like in Cthulhu.

1. DISTRIBUTE STAT-POINTS (ABILITY SCORES)

All stats start at 8 - the player has 28 stat-points to distribute on a 1:1 point buy. The number of stat-points can of course easily be changed to better suit a DM's campaign.

2. TRAITS (OPTIONAL)

Traits describe your character in greater detail. They can only be selected during character creation, and players can select a maximum of 2 traits. Traits are always tradeoffs between bonuses and penalties, and they are optional in character creation. Below are examples of three traits, they are not yet balanced, but serve to give you an impression of their worth.

Gifted: You have more innate abilities than most, so you have not spent as much time honing your skills. You receive 4 instead of 3 character-points every level, but your skill points at 1st level are (2 + Int modifier) x 4, and your skill points every level thereafter are 2 + Int modifier.

Skilled: Since you spent more time improving your skills than a normal person, you gain more skill points. The tradeoff is that you do not gain as many extra abilities. Your starting skill points are (6 + Int Modifier) x4, and you receive 6 + Int Modifier every level. However, you gain feats every third level, instead of every second level. Your first feat at 3rd level, second at 6th, and so on.

Tough Guy: You gain 2 hit points each level instead of 1. You gain a -2 penalty to dexterity and an increase in reflex saves costs 2 character-points instead of 1.

3. BASE ATTACK BONUS AND SAVE PROGRESSION

All saves and the base attack bonus begins play at 1st level at +0, before ability-score modifiers. At 1st level and every level thereafter, a character buys better saves and a better base attack bonus with character-points. Every character gets 3 character-points at 1st and every level thereafter. Each of the saves cost 1 point to increase with a +1, and the base attack bonus costs 2 points to increase with a +1. Your base saves can never exceed these scores at various levels:

Level/Max base save

01) +2
02) +3
03) +3
04) +4
05) +4
06) +5
07) +5
08) +6
09) +6
10) +7
11) +7
12) +8
13) +8
14) +9
15) +9
16) +10
17) +10
18) +11
19) +11
20) +12

Your Base Attack Bonus can never exceed these scores at various levels:

01) +1
02) +2
03) +3
04) +4
05) +5
06) +6/+1*
07) +7/+2
08) +8/+3
09) +9/+4
10) +10/+5
11) +11/+6/+1*
12) +12/+7/+2
13) +13/+8/+3
14) +14/+9/+4
15) +15/+10/+5
16) +16/+11/+6/+1*
17) +17/+12/+7/+2
18) +18/+13/+8/+3
19) +19/+14/+9/+4
20) +20/+15/+10/+5

* The base attack bonus on additional attacks do not cost character points, but unlocking them requires the Extra Attack feat. Being able to attack four times as a full-attack action at level 16 requires three Extra Attack feats.

4. SELECT SKILLS AND FAVORED SKILLS

Each character can choose four Favored Skills + his Int modifier. Favored Skills work like Class-skills and Non-favored Skills work like Cross-Class Skills. Each character receives (4 + Int Modifier) x 4 at 1st level and 4 + Int modifier every level thereafter. Max ranks and such are unchanged from PHB rules. Skills are now far more important in the selection of feats, nearly all feats have either skill or ability score requirements. Why should a big, hulking fighter-type character get to pick Alertness when he has 0 ranks in the skill and a -1 penalty from low Wisdom?

5. SELECT TWO FEATS

Every character starts with two free feats, but he must meet the requirements for those feats as normal.


Remember, many of the numbers above are not final, they are not balanced yet. I would appreciate suggestions on what is and what is not balanced, as well as reminders on things I have forgotten. The campaign is a low-magic, dark setting I have been working on for quite some time.

 

[DWattsoner]

Okay, I got one question before remarking. Are you aiming for a classless system? Because your rules ruin many of the differences between classes.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I am most definately aiming for a classless system.

 

[~Joseph~]

can any one say Fallout?

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Yes...?

I love the Fallout games, and wanted to port the traits and something equivalent to tagging of skills. Of course, I don't have to name the traits gifted, skilled, and tough guy, they could have other names...

 

[Jack Haggerty]

How about this...

At character creation, pick a number of class skills equal to 10 + Cha Modifier.

Hit points equal 1d6 + Con/lvl.

Skill points equal 10 + Int Mod/lvl.

BAB and weapon proficiencies become skills, for example... Melee Attack (swords), or Ranged Attack (crossbows).

Defense (AC) becomes a skill, for example... Dodge, or Parry.

Saving Throws become skills.

You'd probably want to increase the of Feats, also.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

At character creation, pick a number of class skills equal to 10 + Cha Modifier

First of all, I came up with Favored Skills to avoid the term "class-skills". This is because I want the system to be classless, and not to use the term class in any connection. Also, 10 Favored Skills seems too much for me, I'd rather have it at 6. I wrote 4 in the first post of this thread, but in hindsight that seems too low. I really don't know why you use the Charisma modifier to increase the number of Favored Skills at 1st level.

Hit points equal 1d6 + Con/lvl.

This would result in characters with more hit points than I would want IMC. Also, I hate any sort of randomness when creating and developing a character's statistics. I would much rather it be a static number.

Skill points equal 10 + Int Mod/lvl.

Again, too many skill points. You use Int as the modifier here, while you use Cha as the modifier as to how many Favored Skills a character begins with?

BAB and weapon proficiencies become skills, for example... Melee Attack (swords), or Ranged Attack (crossbows).

I would not want to equalize BAB and feats (weapon proficiencies with skills. They would have to cost more than normal skills, since combat is (whether you play a roleplaying campaign or not) extremely important. If it should cost more, then I see why you have given each character so many skill points. But those skill points could still be invested in "normal" skills, leaving every character very skillfull.

Defense (AC) becomes a skill, for example... Dodge, or Parry.

This would have to be a "combat-skill" together with the "base attack skill". The idea does not appeal to me.

Saving Throws become skills.

I'd rather not make the saving throws skills.

You'd probably want to increase the of Feats, also.

I gather you mean increasing the number of feats given to each character. This I have done. Two feats are given at 1st level, a feat at 2nd level, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, and so on.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

First of all, I came up with Favored Skills to avoid the term "class-skills". This is because I want the system to be classless, and not to use the term class in any connection. Also, 10 Favored Skills seems too much for me, I'd rather have it at 6. I wrote 4 in the first post of this thread, but in hindsight that seems too low. I really don't know why you use the Charisma modifier to increase the number of Favored Skills at 1st level.

Alright... It's just semantics. Call them "Talents" instead. If 10 + Cha mod is too much, you caould reduse it to 5 + Cha mod... or whatever suits your fancy.

This would result in characters with more hit points than I would want IMC. Also, I hate any sort of randomness when creating and developing a character's statistics. I would much rather it be a static number.

Alright... Then make it equal to some base number + Con mod.

Again, too many skill points. You use Int as the modifier here, while you use Cha as the modifier as to how many Favored Skills a character begins with?

Again... Reduce the base number if it suit your fancy.

And yes... Cha for Favored skills, and Int for skill points. Favored skills represent your innate talent for various skills (a measure of personality of sorts, and something to make Charisma a little more useful), and skill points represent how quickly you can learn new skills. If someone has a high Int, but a low Cha, then they'll just have to spend a few points on cross class skills.

I would not want to equalize BAB and feats (weapon proficiencies with skills. They would have to cost more than normal skills, since combat is (whether you play a roleplaying campaign or not) extremely important. If it should cost more, then I see why you have given each character so many skill points. But those skill points could still be invested in "normal" skills, leaving every character very skillfull.

Look at it this way... make attack and defense into skills. There are lots of attack skills (much like profession or craft or knowledge). Some can spend skill points to become a little bit good at many weapon types, or spend skill points to becom very good at a single weapon. A "Weapon proficiency" would essentially be equivalant to having a particular attack skill as a Favored skill.

The other point behind this, is that not every one wants to have a character with any combat skill whatsoever. If I wanted to, I could build a high-level mage who has absolutely no training in weapons at all. Why not?

You want classless, that's classess.

This would have to be a "combat-skill" together with the "base attack skill". The idea does not appeal to me.

I'm not sure I understand that...

You could have Dodge, which would be defense based on dexterity. And you could have Parry, which would be defense based on strength, but would require having a weapon or shield in your off-hand and would be next to useless against ranged attacks. Since they are skills, they would track along with the Attack skills, and there would be no descrepancy between the two.

I'd rather not make the saving throws skills.

Why not?

It'd be the easiest way to determine them for a classless character.

I gather you mean increasing the number of feats given to each character. This I have done. Two feats are given at 1st level, a feat at 2nd level, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, and so on.

Yes, I do.

 

[Tonguez]

The system I use is classless (and levelless) and based on Feats

Everyone starts

WP Con
VP D4
Skills 4(6+int mod)/(+d4per level/feat
10 Feats

1. Feats stack.
2. Toughness can be added to VP up to 4 times per level (eg D4+2+2+2+2 = D4+8 (9-12)) this simulates Class HD
3. BAb, Defense bonus and Saves are all Combat Skills(cost 3points per rank)
4. Skills regrouped as General, Trained (crossclass) and Combat
5. Gain 1 Feat per 2 levels

So Bob the Barbarian Lv1
Str 14 Con 17 Dex 16 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 8

WP Con 17 VP 10 (d4+8 (4 Toughness feats)) HP 27
AC 14 (10+defense+dex)

Skill Points 24+int mod

Combat Skill
Attack +2 (Melee+4, Ranged+5)
Defense +1 (Parry+3 Dodge+4)
Fort +1 Ref +1 Will +0 (cost 15 points)

9 Points general/trained skills

Feats
5.Simple Weapons
6.Martial Weapons
7.Light Armour
8. Sheilds
9. Rage (a Feat)
10. Fast Movement (a Feat)

NB Spell levels are feat based also and system designed for low magic so I wont expand on it here.