D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[GMforPowergamers]

Luckily one of Vecna's lair actions lets him ignore concentration for a round!

excapt they hid it in an advture so if you look up his stats you wont know that

 

[Shardstone]

white room is reading "Choose one" not "Can do both?"

not by a LONG shot

2e, 2e with add ons, 3e, 3.5, 4e, pf, M&M, SW saga, multi third party things... so yeah

oh god why make me think of this (I started in 95)

funny becuse my main problem is this ISn't hellping new DMs eaither...

chooseing to lightning bolt over Rotten Fate... infact any spell listed I think (maybe dominate is good)

and fixing it so all the options are better and more or less equal messes with this how? heck my suggestion is move fluff into it's own section not in combat actions... make the lightning bolt higher level if you want to keep it.

aka just do it yourself...

in my years I made plenty of stat blocks for a half dozen editions... but when I get an NPC/Monster I would prefer it to work out the box with minimal change...

I CAN change anything... I can start with the zombie stat block and change it enough to make it Vecna for my game.

and if you want to fix that I am 100% for it... remove fluf cantrips and less powerful spell options.

and full of traps that I see with my experence that newer DMs wont

but what would make it harder if the options were more balanced?!?!

you do understand my problem is this is half done fix right?

What you think are trap options, I think are options to make combat more fun and dynamic. Vecna is a giant bastard who likes to toy with and torture people. Him throwing out thematic but fun spells randomly is a neat time imo.

But...I'd give Vecna Chain Lightning instead. Much more fun.

But even if the spell choice is a problem, that's the spell choice, not the mechanics. You're arguing you don't want prestidigitation and lightning bolt. If those are your only problem with this stat block, I consider it minor at best.

 

[Shardstone]

excapt they hid it in an advture so if you look up his stats you wont know that

How is it hidden when the Vecna dossier leads you to the adventure lol

Sorry, but it sounds like you're looking for criticisms just for criticisms sake at this point.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

What you think are trap options, I think are options to make combat more fun and dynamic.

and why would making the abilities all on par be less fun and less dynamic? What is it about "I can do 8d6+x and get an effect or 8d6 and this choice is baked in but the DM had to look up the lightning bolt spell to make that mind up?

Vecna is a giant bastard who likes to toy with and torture people. Him throwing out thematic but fun spells randomly is a neat time imo.

and having (DC22 11d8 lighting damage dex half) added to the alightning bolt makes it less thematic how?

But...I'd give Vecna Chain Lightning instead. Much more fun.

but again... I agree I wonder why Wotc doesn't?

But even if the spell choice is a problem, that's the spell choice, not the mechanics.

the spell choice is there for the new guy starting out... and hidden in it is a weak option for no reason... a weak option that takes more time and effort for no reason.

You're arguing you don't want prestidigitation and lightning bolt. If those are your only problem with this stat block, I consider it minor at best.

I don't want trap options hidden in a high CR monster.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

How is it hidden when the Vecna dossier leads you to the adventure lol

Sorry, but it sounds like you're looking for criticisms just for criticisms sake at this point.

and it sounds to me like you just want to shut down anything anyone says against it...

if you are putting vecna in your campagin (especially if you already planed it levels ago) and you say "Oh, the new stats are out" and you pull them up they don't give him lair actions, not even a hint like "Check out the adventure below were we buffed him to make him keep up with his CR"

 

[Shardstone]

and why would making the abilities all on par be less fun and less dynamic? What is it about "I can do 8d6+x and get an effect or 8d6 and this choice is baked in but the DM had to look up the lightning bolt spell to make that mind up?

and having (DC22 11d8 lighting damage dex half) added to the alightning bolt makes it less thematic how?

but again... I agree I wonder why Wotc doesn't?

the spell choice is there for the new guy starting out... and hidden in it is a weak option for no reason... a weak option that takes more time and effort for no reason.

I don't want trap options hidden in a high CR monster.

I don't understand your first point at all.

I never disagree with your second point, I never said it would be less thematic to do that. You made up that argument.

WotC doesn't agree because they want the game to be simple for new players and customizbale for experienced ones. They could go further, but they always take a conservative approach. I don't like it either.

It is a hidden weak option for no reason, its a fun option. I keep saying this, you keep ignoring it. They are not trying to design monsters that are 100 percent super efficient. They just aren't. They never have. They never really will. They will design monsters who are fun and have a diversity of options to do fun things. If you don't find them fun, they tell you to change them.

I think that you think I'm excusing WotC. I'm not. At this point, you're just arguing against yourself and using me as a stand in for your hypothetical arguments.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What you think are trap options, I think are options to make combat more fun and dynamic. Vecna is a giant bastard who likes to toy with and torture people. Him throwing out thematic but fun spells randomly is a neat time imo.

But...I'd give Vecna Chain Lightning instead. Much more fun.

But even if the spell choice is a problem, that's the spell choice, not the mechanics. You're arguing you don't want prestidigitation and lightning bolt. If those are your only problem with this stat block, I consider it minor at best.

Wouldn't it be more fun if Vecna wasn't throwing the same spells the players themselves have had for the past 15 levels?

As if he were some kind of next level wizard with millennia of time to roll his own?

 

[Shardstone]

Wouldn't it be more fun if Vecna wasn't throwing the same spells the players themselves have had for the past 15 levels?

As if he were some kind of next level wizard with millennia of time to roll his own?

You're completely right, it'd be sick if Vecna had his own spells and what not.

The reason I don't bring up this criticism is because WotC has abused me into acceptance. I know that WotC will literally only design 50 percent of what they need to make a concept work. In theory, Vecna could have a suite of 12 completely original spells and his multiattack is just using 3-4 spells freely per turn. Or you could give them variant versions of common spells, like a Chain Lightning that marks you with some kind of blight, or a cone of cold that lowers your maximum hit points. But, WotC won't do this. They refuse to do this. And even after 10 years of complaining, they still refuse to do this.

At this point, I'm just trying to make the best of what I'm given.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't understand your first point at all.

the point is they put both good and bad in the same block and make it look like they are equal options

I never disagree with your second point, I never said it would be less thematic to do that. You made up that argument.

i didn't make it up... your defense of weaker spells was it was thematic... I asked why makeing it equal (or close) and spelled out wouldn't be...

WotC doesn't agree because they want the game to be simple for new players and customizbale for experienced ones. They could go further, but they always take a conservative approach. I don't like it either.

they stand in the middle of the road too much and it helps no one... this is to complex and full of traps for me to give to a new DM and it isn't as spelled out as some old school experienced DMs would want...

I just want them to go 100% for the new easier way for a new DM (and make it easier on us old men too)

It is a hidden weak option for no reason, its a fun option. I keep saying this, you keep ignoring it. They are not trying to design monsters that are 100 percent super efficient.

why would it be LESS fun to have it deal better damage, or as you suggested be chain lightning? why would it be LESS to write out a quick hand 'what it does'

 

[Shardstone]

the point is they put both good and bad in the same block and make it look like they are equal options

i didn't make it up... your defense of weaker spells was it was thematic... I asked why makeing it equal (or close) and spelled out wouldn't be...

they stand in the middle of the road too much and it helps no one... this is to complex and full of traps for me to give to a new DM and it isn't as spelled out as some old school experienced DMs would want...

I just want them to go 100% for the new easier way for a new DM (and make it easier on us old men too)

why would it be LESS fun to have it deal better damage, or as you suggested be chain lightning? why would it be LESS to write out a quick hand 'what it does'

I think slinging out a lightning bolt is a super fun thing to do narratively. In fact, I give almost every caster I have lightning bolt because I naughty word love watching casters throw lightning from their hands. It always stuns my players too (ooc, not in-game), because lightning bolts are fuckign rad and ooze power.

And when you're getting exhaustion from the layer, healing is halved, surrounded by shadows draining your strength, VEcna throwing lightning at you while laughing at how pathetic you are is a fun visual. Its like Darth Sideous, only with Necromancy, and I think that might have been a touchstone for WotC too for making this guy. So, now Vecna is fool on cackling and screaming "UNLIMITED POWER" as he hurls lightning and summons all his undead minions, and yeah you'll survive it, and he'll sneer and say something about how resilient insects are these days and turn up the heat with more powerful spells and effects.

That's what I mean by fun. The actual narrative of the game, the description, the visuals, the things you can do to mess with players. Not just the damage numbers.

You could replace Lightning Bolt with any other spell to make it fun for you too.