D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Bill Zebub]

I see where you are coming from. probably because I started during BECMI and then AD&D, there weren't any "daily" abilities that weren't magical in nature so it is just sort of ingrained.

I mean, how do you explain Expertise Dice? “Yeah, I can trip two opponents, or I can taunt two opponents, or one of each. But not two of each. But if I take a nap I can start over.”

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I often say (although I didn't make it up...I read this somewhere) that the way to explain daily martial powers has nothing to do with resource management: the reason an ability like, say, "Whirlwind Attack" is limited to 1/day is for gamist balance reasons. But the warrior doesn't know this. He uses it every chance he gets. But the frequency with which he finds himself in the perfect position to use it, with enough energy to do so, without dangerously exposing his flank, just happens to be 1/day. If you pointed this out to him he would scratch his head and say, "Really? I could have sworn I've used it multiple times in a single battle before. Huh. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong." He is (or could be, if this is your preferred interpretation of game mechanics) completely oblivious to the 1/day restriction.

Casters can be interpreted the same way. Different spellcasters are tapping into totally different principles, but for gamist/balance reasons we restrict the actual expression of this to a shared set of limitations. The casters themselves don't know they are bound by these restrictions.

yeah, I often have sorcerers and warlocks ingame think of there magic diffrent then wizards... but they know the limits. the fighter from 4e (or anyone really) are always thinking they JUST pulled this off

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, that’s the way I assume some people think about it.

But there is another way: that there are in-character reasons why he just never happens to cast more than two third level spells a day that has nothing to do with slots, or perhaps he would have liked to have cast Haste today, but didn’t for reasons that have nothing to do with preparation.



Because the player knows that’s how it works. The character might have a totally different explanation.

I realize this is alien/strange/wrong to a lot of people, but I’m guessing that people who think so also think that NPC spellcasters should use the same rules as PCs.

You are correct, that indeed feels alien/strange/wrong to me. The idea that a different set of circumstances occurs each day that just happen to line up perfectly with the PC's spell slots is just ridiculous. In-universe, the character has to use magic in a way analogous to how the game uses it for it to make any sense to me.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I often say (although I didn't make it up...I read this somewhere) that the way to explain daily martial powers has nothing to do with resource management: the reason an ability like, say, "Whirlwind Attack" is limited to 1/day is for gamist balance reasons. But the warrior doesn't know this. He uses it every chance he gets. But the frequency with which he finds himself in the perfect position to use it, with enough energy to do so, without dangerously exposing his flank, just happens to be 1/day. If you pointed this out to him he would scratch his head and say, "Really? I could have sworn I've used it multiple times in a single battle before. Huh. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong." He is (or could be, if this is your preferred interpretation of game mechanics) completely oblivious to the 1/day restriction.

Casters can be interpreted the same way. Different spellcasters are tapping into totally different principles, but for gamist/balance reasons we restrict the actual expression of this to a shared set of limitations. The casters themselves don't know they are bound by these restrictions.

The game could really use a section in the PH about engaging the imagination vis-a-vis how the mechanics are reflected in the fiction and NOT the physics of the world.

Like the classic mistake of people assuming that because a feat allows a reliable and repeatable use of an ability that no one else in the world can do something similar without expressly having the feat.

 

[Bill Zebub]

You are correct, that indeed feels alien/strange/wrong to me. The idea that a different set of circumstances occurs each day that just happen to line up perfectly with the PC's spell slots is just ridiculous. In-universe, the character has to use magic in a way analogous to how the game uses it for it to make any sense to me.

Huh. That feels like a creative straitjacket to me. But I get that we each bring our own lenses and priorities to the game.

 

[Reynard]

I mean, how do you explain Expertise Dice? “Yeah, I can trip two opponents, or I can taunt two opponents, or one of each. But not two of each. But if I take a nap I can start over.”

Well, I hadn't really thought about it. But now I can't stop.

Thanks.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Huh. That feels like a creative straitjacket to me. But I get that we each bring our own lenses and priorities to the game.

At the very least, the way PC and NPC spellcasters of the same type use magic has be the same. How did PCs learn their abilities anyway?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, I hadn't really thought about it. But now I can't stop.

Thanks.

even the champion fighter has second wind and action surge... things that refresh.

I joked once that a fighter that used second wind and action surge in combat 1, then got healed took 10 min down to prep, then went into the next fight was somehow 'too tired' to do it again but not tired enough to effect anything else

but a fighter that doesn't use either and takes 3 levels of exhustion and 15 perm hp and another 12 reg hp and 2 str damage is totally beat up and 'exhusted' but can still second wind and action surge in the next fight

 

[GMforPowergamers]

At the very least, the way PC and NPC spellcasters of the same type use magic has be the same. How did PCs learn their abilities anyway?

my thing is a shadow play... I don't need "Esmerelda your mentor" to have an entire spell pyramid,,, in fact she could maybe not have a sheet other then the general 'smarter then int 15 PC, and about 13th level wizard' but having stats like vecna does would be just fine even if in story she is suppoesed to be just like the PC... it just has to have the illusion of it being true.

 

[Bill Zebub]

At the very least, the way PC and NPC spellcasters of the same type use magic has be the same. How did PCs learn their abilities anyway?

Oh, sure, I agree a Wizard probably casts spells using the same principles of magic used by their teacher.

I just don’t think 4/3/2 (or whatever) is one of those principles. That’s an artificial meta game construct that puts boundaries around magic for gamist reasons.