D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, sure, I agree a Wizard probably casts spells using the same principles of magic used by their teacher.

I just don’t think 4/3/2 (or whatever) is one of those principles. That’s an artificial meta game construct that puts boundaries around magic for gamist reasons.

See, since that construct directly affects how PC and NPCs operate in-universe, it should be represented somehow in universe, IMO.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Sad thing: I have not find a system, with a better balance of out of combat and in combat stuff.
Probably it is familarity, but we just like how the game is structured. We just don't need more out of combat rules.

There are many games that use the same resolution system for combat and non combat which I would argue are by structure alone better balanced between out of combat and combat. FATE, Cortex+, etc.

Of course, they are different beasts.

 

[Bill Zebub]

See, since that construct directly affects how PC and NPCs operate in-universe, it should be represented somehow in universe, IMO.

You can represent it however you want. Heck, you could play a character crippled by self-doubt and anxiety, who frequently fumbles his spells...coincidentally right when the character sheet says he's out of spell slots.

"I start casting fireball...wait, is it 'deum conflagratum' or 'conflagratum deum'....oh oh oh oh oh this is TOO MUCH PRESSURE! Never mind, I cast firebolt." (Rolls attack and gets a 3). "Oh drat! I forgot that one, too!"

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

See, since that construct directly affects how PC and NPCs operate in-universe, it should be represented somehow in universe, IMO.

I think it either should or shouldn't and D&D should be much more explicit about it.

At this point I would prefer it just mechanically model one of the way PCs have picked up magic and not try to tie it into a in-universe thing called a "Wizard" or whatever.

I'd rather all classes follow this so we don't have some classes tied closely to in-universe labels (e.g., Wizard) and others not (e.g., Fighter). Make it explicit that "Fighter" is not some kind of in-universe profession as well but just a mechanical model of a kind of superior fighting person.

 

[Voadam]

Ok, but always exactly once between rests? Clearly there’s an entirely meta game construct at work here, which we justify with the sort of fictional framing you just offered.

I’m just saying that spell slots are (or can easily be) the same thing.

When a warrior narratively hits an enemy hard with a weapon this mechanically could be a normal blow rolling well, a once per encounter or day 4e martial power/once per short rest 5e power/proficiency bonus per long rest 5e power that does more damage, a critical hit, or a hit against someone with few hp.

When a wizard narratively throws a web spell there are fewer mechanical options that can match up to that narrative well.

 

[Bill Zebub]

When a warrior narratively hits an enemy hard with a weapon this mechanically could be a normal blow rolling well, a once per encounter or day 4e martial power/once per short rest 5e power/proficiency bonus per long rest 5e power that does more damage, a critical hit, or a hit against someone with few hp.

When a wizard narratively throws a web spell there are fewer mechanical options that can match up to that narrative well.

I guess I don't really understand your point.

Because we are talking about spellcasting limits, what I'm saying is that when the wizard who is otherwise capable of casting web does not cast it, what's the in-game explanation? One is that he is out of spell slots. But there could be myriad other reasons. "Casting spells is dangerous and I just don't feel it's safe right now." "The Weave ebbs and flows like a river; you can't catch a fish any time and place you choose, and casting spells works the same way." "Imagine a clock with 10 hands moving at different speeds; you can only channel magic when all the hands are in the right places, and each type of magic requires a different configuration. This is NOT the time for conjuring magical spider webs! Don't you know anything?"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think there’s only a disconnect if you are choosing to not buy into the fiction.

In some ways it reminds me of metagaming discussions, in which people will (apparently) reject perfectly plausible explanations for character knowledge because they suspect the player is really just trying to gain “unfair advantage.” But the exact same action declaration from a player who couldn’t possibly have that knowledge is acceptable.

someone even argued with me on this or another board once that a pyromancer (AU subclass) would not know to use fire on a troll... said pyromancer had 1 spell that did a different type of damage and that was magic missile.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You can represent it however you want. Heck, you could play a character crippled by self-doubt and anxiety, who frequently fumbles his spells...coincidentally right when the character sheet says he's out of spell slots.

"I start casting fireball...wait, is it 'deum conflagratum' or 'conflagratum deum'....oh oh oh oh oh this is TOO MUCH PRESSURE! Never mind, I cast firebolt." (Rolls attack and gets a 3). "Oh drat! I forgot that one, too!"

That is simply maddening to me. I'm glad that option is open for you though.

 

[Bill Zebub]

That is simply maddening to me.

Unsurprising that we rarely agree on gaming philosophy, huh?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I guess I don't really understand your point.

Because we are talking about spellcasting limits, what I'm saying is that when the wizard who is otherwise capable of casting web does not cast it, what's the in-game explanation? One is that he is out of spell slots. But there could be myriad other reasons. "Casting spells is dangerous and I just don't feel it's safe right now." "The Weave ebbs and flows like a river; you can't catch a fish any time and place you choose, and casting spells works the same way." "Imagine a clock with 10 hands moving at different speeds; you can only channel magic when all the hands are in the right places, and each type of magic requires a different configuration. This is NOT the time for conjuring magical spider webs! Don't you know anything?"

Spellcasters don't have to explain anything ever.

Martials must fill out this form in triplicate, have it signed by both a PhD in Physics and a Medical Doctor, and turn it in at the check in station on the third sub-basement of D&D HQ in Nome, located in a broken file cabinet behind a locked door marked 'Beware the leopard'.