D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

like any and every tool in my DM tool box there is a right and wrong time to use fudgeing and adding... and I am human I make mistakes I can tell you there have been times I didn't and should have and times I did and should not have. However it annoys me when people make broad sweeping clames that a tool is never the right one to use... especially when I go out of my way to KEEP saying "it depends on the table" and people like to pretend they know MY table, and MY friends better than I do.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Okay.

I consider it "having entered play" when the creature, y'know, starts casting spells. Unless there's a very good reason why the players wouldn't have a clue what capabilities the caster has, my options for changing it without notice or chance to learn of the change are limited at best and often nonexistent.

If a creature can be actively casting spells, how does that not mean they (and, necessarily, their spellcasting) have entered play? The players have literally observed them casting spells! If "oh well they just haven't seen them cast THIS spell" is your standard, then I won't mince words. That standard is crap.
I mean, I wouldn't change things the PC know about without them getting an opportunity to know that something has changed.

And I wouldn't add features to an NPC either, just swap out something I feel is useless. "Oh, this NPC is not gonna use Expeditious Retreat so might as well say it was Feather Fall, he's the one who chose the tower with no guardrail so that makes sense." or

Sometimes it's just stuff the NPCs can do to look like they're trying, even if I give them terrible change to succeed "Oh shoot, now those guys have no way to attack from that side of the chasm. I'll give them a turn to bring out some slings and gather loose rocks". Heck, in that last one I might just pretend to roll dice and just tell the PC they missed just so nobody forgets they exist.

I say that but it's not something I would do all the time, not even that often either, just an option if I realize the NPC doesn't really work for the specific scenario. I'd say most of the time I'd realize before sitting down but you never know.
 

I'm not sure where you live, but most locations have a legal requirement that the driver must signal others. If you intentionally drive a car where you cannot signal using the lights and cannot singal using the hand signs (which most people don't even know anymore), you have in fact broken laws in a wide variety of jurisdictions and can get much, MUCH more than a "fix-it ticket."

This isn't hard, you can look this stuff up online. Certainly, in the state where I live, the law actually requires you to use your signals. (Technically speaking if you know for certain you are completely alone on the road--no pedestrians, motorists, cyclists, nothing--then you don't have to. But if there is even one pedestrian nearby, you do.)
I live in California. When a car has a mechanical issue that is unsafe, you get a fix-it ticket. Tail light out? Fix-it ticket! Blinker not working? Fix-it ticket! These laws you speak of are only infractions. You don't get "MUCH more than a "fix-it ticket."" for an infraction. The link below is to the Court website.

 

I live in California. When a car has a mechanical issue that is unsafe, you get a fix-it ticket. Tail light out? Fix-it ticket! Blinker not working? Fix-it ticket! These laws you speak of are only infractions. You don't get "MUCH more than a "fix-it ticket."" for an infraction. The link below is to the Court website.

I live in CT other side of the country and I can tell you we rarely even get the fix it tickets normally it just an FYI if they bother at all.
 

This is one of those things that people are always going to feel strongly about, because it's easy to see how making ad hoc changes can be used and misused. For example, a misuse:

I once had a DM who rolled behind his screen all the time. This was pretty standard, so I never gave it much thought. We got hit often by enemies, but for the longest time I never gave that much thought either.

Until that one time. We were on a ship and it was attacked by pirates, who boarded us (because any time adventurers get on a ship, it's either a storm, pirates, or sea monsters, naturally).

The pirates were doing a lot of damage to us, and no one got missed the entire fight. Even when my Fighter used his Combat Expertise (reasoning the pirates weren't armored, so did I really need that attack bonus?). But I still kept getting hit. I quickly clued into what AC the bad guys had, and knew what number I needed to hit on. So I was surprised when I missed a pirate who seemed no different than the others.

"Well, maybe he has a ring of protection or something", I thought, and carried on.

After the fight, one of the other players griped about the pirates, saying the encounter was too hard. The DM let drop that they were only level 2 Warriors.

That's when my brain looked at their gear. No armor. Bastard swords, of all things. Nothing masterwork.

BAB +2. Weapon Focus for +1. At the high point of the fight, I had boosted my AC to something like 26 (the DM was salty about me wearing my armor on a ship, but I had specifically bought a crystal of aquatic action to affix to my armor before we ever got on board the ship). For them to hit me on anything other than a natural 20, they would have needed a Strength of 18. Odd for an entire pirate crew to be that strong...but then I remembered our Cleric had cast prayer, imposing a -1 to all their attack rolls. So now they would had to have 20 Strength, and since they were all human (supposedly), that seemed very unusual.

They had no magical items, nor were they buffed by a caster. And, despite the fact that the best AC they could likely have was 14 (18 Dexterity), I'd missed a few times when there was no way I could have.

So I started asking questions. The DM tried to deflect with his notes, but it came out that the pirates all had 15 Strength, to let them use their swords.

I realized that the DM had never cared what our numbers were. We could have been walking into combat buck naked for all it mattered. He wanted to challenge us, and he wasn't going to let little things like Armor Class stop him. He decided when we got hit (often), when we missed (occasionally), and when we failed or succeeded on checks, not by any rule or number, but by what he "felt" was correct.

I quit his game because, despite the fact he told a good story, I no longer had any trust that we were playing a game at all. Instead it was a sort of interactive choose your own adventure where everything was determined by the DM's whim. If his monsters couldn't hurt us, then they could. It was that simple.

Ever since, I roll all my dice in the open, and choose to be as transparent as possible with my players when it comes to the abilities of the things they fight, because keeping the trust of my players is super important to me.

I'm not saying that if you fudge, you'll lose your players. Or that anyone here abuses the tool. But it's like a magic trick. Once you see how it's done, it's no longer special. Once you know for certain it's all smoke and mirrors, you can no longer see it as a game.

And that's alright for some people. It's like pro wrestling. We all know it's fake. But for some, the storylines and the art devoted to making something fake look spectacular, are enough to keep them engaged.

And for others, it's just a bunch of sweaty, overaged men with big muscles and weird costumes missing each other by a country mile with heavily telegraphed punches.

So no matter how skilled you are at using the technique, or how much your players enjoy your campaign, people who have been burned by the abuse of fudging will never acknowledge it's legitimacy as a tool.

When hard core raiders in an MMO struggle to make their way to the final boss, and the developers are in the game, making adjustments to the boss as it's being fought, it no doubt leaves a sour taste in their mouths, even if the end result is a challenging fight and not simply beating on a pinata until it breaks open to dispense loot.
 

If I were to try and create a narrative justification for things like superiority dice and maneuvers -- which, to be clear, I generally wouldn't since it's okay in my mind for the game to have game elements -- I would just assume (in fiction) that successful maneuvers are just particularly spectacular results. that is, the fighter isn't (in fiction) doing anything different but the results are better -- a prone foe, more damage, disarming, etc... it fits how cinematic fights go better and avoids the "why can't you do that again" problem.

I can see that. But that does make it a purely meta game ability: it’s like the player is Athena or Zeus watching over their pet mortal, and putting their finger on the scale at critical moments, without the character even being aware of it.

I think it’s also ok for the player to imagine it as something the character consciously does.
 

So you straight-up tell your players, "I edited the spells this creature could cast while in the middle of the combat. How did you feel about that?"

You are mixing two paradigms: rigid preparation and improv. If you’re DMing this way there might not be a list to edit. I might say, “I didn’t know what spells he had until he needed them.” Or maybe it was, “I wrote down a few of his spells, but left some empty spaces.”

Also, Vecna is way smarter than I am. If I’m prepping his spell list for him it’s a huge handicap.
 

You are mixing two paradigms: rigid preparation and improv. If you’re DMing this way there might not be a list to edit. I might say, “I didn’t know what spells he had until he needed them.” Or maybe it was, “I wrote down a few of his spells, but left some empty spaces.”
yeah that too... more or less warlocks and sorceres have X spells known and wizards can in theory have EVERY spell known... if I am dropping a caster in spur of the moment I 100% do not have a full list at most I might scribble 1 or 2 spells down.

even when I DO prep ahead I don't always take every spell
 

My main issue with this thinking: Who defines what gets to be a "cool moment"? By definition, you're never going to tell your players you do this. You're almost certainly going to work to prevent them from ever knowing it. Hence, you are not merely doing it secretly, you are actively preventing the possibility of feedback. The only opinion that matters is, thus, yours. I don't really care for that kind of DMing, for exactly the same reason as why I don't care for railroading or pixelb!+@#ing or false choices, or various other DMing approaches.
IMO you are missing a major part of what makes things truly cool, which is why I allow every major bad guy one major twist that's not on the statblock, which I refer to as the "I am not left handed" moment. If you watch any heist movie the protagonists plan everything out in detail - and then something goes pear shaped. And the rest of the movie is about how things actually get back on track and have to deal with the new information. It's the one thing this boss was keeping in reserve just in case, and is deliberately keeping secret. It's not a counter to everything - but is a gamechanger (the last one was that the boss had made a deal with PCs of players who could no longer make it and summoned them as reinforcements; the boss did get away but that was thanks to Plane Shift on their statblock).

But I always keep in mind that the job of a DM is close to that of a pro wrestling heel; to be booed and to sell it as if the face will lose - but in the end to go down. And let's face it "I am not left handed either" was insanely cool and could not have happened without the setup where the game was changed. But each boss only gets one; this isn't Calvinball and I'm not trying to win, just to massively ramp up the tension. It also has to be unique. I also don't use it with what is already a phase-changing boss (like a 4e dragon) as that ramp up has the same purpose.
 

each boss only gets one; this isn't Calvinball and I'm not trying to win, just to massively ramp up the tension. It also has to be unique. I also don't use it with what is already a phase-changing boss (like a 4e dragon) as that ramp up has the same purpose.
this is my measure of how I feel as a player... if the DM is trying to 'win' it is a big NO... and it doesn't matter if they have 100pg write up sealed and handed to us session 1 with all the stats of the guy who TPKed us session 25, or if he was winging it.

the DM wins when everyone is having fun
 

Remove ads

Top