D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, that's why I liked the weapon keywords and properties from 4e. Those created an actually interesting space. They could even have been expanded. Frex:

Accurate (+1 to hit)
Finesse (can use Dex for hit/damage)
Defensive (+1 shield bonus to AC while wielding at least one Defensive weapon)
Brutal N (reroll damage dice that show N or less)
High Crit (roll extra dice when landing crits)
Unstoppable (increase crit range by 1)
Savage (roll damage twice, take the higher value)
Blunt (replace normal damage dice with average value, rounded down)
Thrown (can be used for ranged attacks without improvisation)

Etc. I'm sure I could come up with more if I weren't exhausted. The idea being, the properties don't have to be complicated, and each weapon could have (say) at most 2 properties, maybe 3 for fancy exotic weapons.

Of course I also liked the idea that you could have feats that hooked into "I use axes" stuff, but I doubt 5e is interested in that level of mechanical engagement.

yes and lets not forget rogue weapon talent to give them a reason to use lower die weapons too...

 

[dave2008]

But if the book is a core rulebook, "helpful information" is interpreted as Word of God.

a booklet called "Advice for new DMs" could be included in starter sets and available online.

Listen, I just think it is a good idea, you don't. No biggie! There is not a right or wrong answer here and no reason to get worked up about it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

People learn in many ways (my partner was a teacher and I have been a coach). People can learn from experience and they can learn from the experience of others. Also, it is even better if you have both that reinforce each other.

if nobody could learn by reading how to books would never sell...

yes everyone learns different (actually a major advantage today is I can watch people play on twitch or youtube) but we should still put the help in the books

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm sorry, since when are clerics, warlocks or various other casters "glass cannons"? It's not like the wizard thing is all that prevalent. I was unaware that Hags were glass cannons. Or most demons or devils. Or a rather wide variety of caster monsters. But, sure, we could always just assume that all casters mean wizards.

The problem of glass cannons is a completely unrelated issue to the new stat blocks. As is the whole CR thing. These are both separate issues. The problem that the new stat blocks is resolving is that the old stat blocks were too complicated and had too many different abilities on them, most of which will never see play. All this side bar stuff about CR and glass cannons and whatnot is not really the issue that's being addressed.

We've wandered rather far afield from the original issues of the thread- which basically boil down to the fact that 5e stat blocks are too bloated with different effects.

I think the issue of the thread is questioning that assertion, not assuming it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

if nobody could learn by reading how to books would never sell...

yes everyone learns different (actually a major advantage today is I can watch people play on twitch or youtube) but we should still put the help in the books

Ideally, it should be in text AND on twitch and youtube. Which digital publishing allows. Put it in hypertext links.

But what really worries me seems to be an assumption that new players are stupid. We figured it out without handholding, what makes a new generation so incapable?

 

[Vaalingrade]

But if the book is a core rulebook, "helpful information" is interpreted as Word of God.

If the fact that the book meekly tells you that it is a meaningless pile of jabber before the Mighty DM's ability to make bad choices isn't enough of a clue that the is not god or word thereof, then I don't know what we can do.

 

[James Gasik]

Ideally, it should be in text AND on twitch and youtube. Which digital publishing allows. Put it in hypertext links.

But what really worries me seems to be an assumption that new players are stupid. We figured it out without handholding, what makes a new generation so incapable?

How long did that take though? I remember when I first started DMing in AD&D- half the rules I didn't understand, so I just made stuff up as I went along, lol. It's old hat now, but there's a lot of fiddly bits to even 5e if you think about it. And you can't say "oh well, they only need to learn how to run the game and not worry about what the PC's can do"...that way leads to tears.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I just made stuff up as I went along

That's the key skill. Once you know to do that you are there.

 

[James Gasik]

That's the key skill. Once you know to do that you are there.

Yeah except, a lot of the stuff I made up was...not very good. And led to quite a few headaches, lol.

"Fortunately", I had a few players who seemed to think taking advantage of the newbie DM was great fun, and after the fifth or sixth time I was I told something eyebrow raising, I sat down and read all the game books cover to cover, multiple times, until I could quote them chapter and verse when they tried to pull one over on me.

At which point they said my game wasn't fun anymore because I was a "rules lawyer"...but that's neither here nor there, lol.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah except, a lot of the stuff I made up was...not very good. And led to quite a few headaches, lol.

I was lucky when I was young and immature and doing dumb things my players were just as young dumb and immature... in general as we met more players we evolved and grew...

okay not all of us.

"Fortunately", I had a few players who seemed to think taking advantage of the newbie DM was great fun, and after the fifth or sixth time I was I told something eyebrow raising, I sat down and read all the game books cover to cover, multiple times, until I could quote them chapter and verse when they tried to pull one over on me.

I had a player in 2e SWARE he read somewhere you could scry through a wizard's mark... even today I would (knowing way better) say we could do something like that... sometimes my immature dumb ruleings were fun...

our man and dabbling systems will NEVER again show up...

At which point they said my game wasn't fun anymore because I was a "rules lawyer"...but that's neither here nor there, lol.

yeah I had people that I outgrew too... too bad some of them were cool