D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[Charlaquin]

For me this is great. I view monster an PC stats more like scientific modells. Tools that help calculate things, not 1:1 representations of reality.

Otherwise you end up with weird stuff like devils, angels, fey and Cthulhu giving out the exact same cantrip. One that weirdly no other spellcaster can access. That's breaking versimilutude more than viewing Eldritch Blast as a modell for a variety of spell attacks. That also leaves options to refluff your spells.

Agreed!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Vecna literally has the Book of Vile Darkness, which says it can contain literally any spells the DM wants to put inside of it, and even weird non-spell magic things that would require human sacrifice or other dark rites. You literally have a magic item that says slap Venca with more naughty word because the players can take it. Come on guys. Come on.

Except without spell slots, Vecna can't actually cast any of those spells in the Book of Vile Darkness..... so, it is pretty useless in that respect.

 

[pukunui]

Except without spell slots, Vecna can't actually cast any of those spells in the Book of Vile Darkness..... so, it is pretty useless in that respect.

Sure he can! He wrote the bloody thing. He can use it however you want. Or, if it matters that much to you, you can give him spell slots that he can use to cast spells from the book. Converting newer spellcaster NPCs back to the older format shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[Hussar]

Except without spell slots, Vecna can't actually cast any of those spells in the Book of Vile Darkness..... so, it is pretty useless in that respect.

Except that he has whatever spell slots you want to give him.

I'm frankly baffled that this actually needs to be spelled out after ten years of 5e. The Stat Blocks are not a simulation of ANYTHING. They never have been. They have never, EVER been a limit on what a monster could do. So, he can cast anything he wants.

For years, all I heard was all the complaints about how D&D magic is boring because it is completely predictable. It's formulaic.

So, WotC actually listens to the complaints and fixes things. Now, monsters DON'T USE PC RULES.

Repeat that with me. MONSTERS IN 5E DO NOT USE PC RULES.

They really, really really don't. And never, ever have.

So, why should the Globe of Invulnerability, to pick an example, of a ten thousand year old lich work exactly the same as your 55 year old wizard?

You'd almost think that creating new spells and effects is something that casters were capable of doing. Huh. Funny that.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sure he can! He wrote the bloody thing. He can use it however you want. Or, if it matters that much to you, you can give him spell slots that he can use to cast spells from the book. Converting newer spellcaster NPCs back to the older format shouldn't be that difficult.

Others could also have run stat blocks (the way they used to be) in any fashion they wanted, as well, but WotC felt such changes were necessary.

So, instead of people converting the old stat blocks to get they want, now I (and others) have to convert the new format???

Repeat that with me. MONSTERS IN 5E DO NOT USE PC RULES.

Vecna has the spellcasting trait, so should abide by those rules. A game that insists on different rules/systems of monsters and another for PCs is not well designed IMO. Vecna could have kept his spells as was formerly done, and given him other features if DMs desired.

So, WotC actually listens to the complaints and fixes things

And creates OTHER complaints in the meanwhile.

 

[Hussar]

Others could also have run stat blocks (the way they used to be) in any fashion they wanted, as well, but WotC felt such changes were necessary.

So, instead of people converting the old stat blocks to get they want, now I (and others) have to convert the new format???



Vecna has the spellcasting trait, so should abide by those rules. A game that insists on different rules/systems of monsters and another for PCs is not well designed IMO. Vecna could have kept his spells as was formerly done, and given him other features if DMs desired.


And creates OTHER complaints in the meanwhile.

Why does this only apply to casters?

After all, the non-caster fighter types certainly don't follow PC rules. What class is a Knight? What class grants me this non magical special ability:

Leadership (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest): For 1 minute, the knight can utter a Special Command or warning whenever a nonhostile creature that it can see within 30 ft. of it makes an Attack roll or a saving throw. The creature can add a d4 to its roll provided it can hear and understand the knight. A creature can benefit from only one Leadership die at a time. This Effect ends if the knight is Incapacitated.

So, why aren't people all up in arms about how the non-casters don't follow class rules?

As far as "not being well designed", well, that's 5e for you. It has been this way since day 1. Monsters have NEVER followed PC rules. That's a 3e thing that never made it out of 3e. It certainly was never true in 5e. So, since you haven't been banging the "D&D is poorly designed" drum until now, what's the actual problem? Or should we go back to the days when orcs only had warrior class and had to be leveled up to advance them?

So, no, you're flat out wrong here. It's not poor design. It's the way the game has always been designed. They went with spell slots as per class previously, but, well, that turned out to be a huge waste of time and space. Why bother giving Vecna, what, something like 40 spells known, when he's going to cast, maybe 5 of them? The days of monsters following PC rules ended fifteen years ago and hasn't been true since the release of 4e and was only true for the 3e and 3.5 e's.

 

[Tallifer]

This new change is half-assed. 4E presented a magic-using monster in a stat block with no leafing or scrolling or clicking through other pages or links to find out what each magical ability was.

 

[Hussar]

This new change is half-assed. 4E presented a magic-using monster in a stat block with no leafing or scrolling or clicking through other pages or links to find out what each magical ability was.

Well yes. But we can’t get too close to 4e without people losing their minds, so half assed it will remain.

Gotta keep pretending that 4e didn’t happen right? Gotta maintain the illusion.

 

[Shiroiken]

The sad part of this is that the entirety of this problem could be solved by adding one sentence to each creature with the spellcasting trait: "X is a Y level caster using Z ability score for spellcasting." It existed in all previous versions, and adding this one line would give both sides of the argument what they want. DMs that prefer the new method could use the stat block as it is, while DMs that prefer the old method could use the level to figure out what spells they should have (and upcast if desired).

Sure he can! He wrote the bloody thing. He can use it however you want. Or, if it matters that much to you, you can give him spell slots that he can use to cast spells from the book. Converting newer spellcaster NPCs back to the older format shouldn't be that difficult.

This argument is saying that an incomplete product is fine, since the DM can just do whatever they want. If I wanted to do that, why would I buy the product in the first place? Since Vecna is supposed to be a god, we have no idea how many spell slots he should actually have, because it could be level 20 or it could be more (possibly less, but I doubt it). This conversion is actually pretty difficult if you want to maintain balance, which was the big concern I had when MPMM came out.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

1. I have no idea the caster level of the monster.
2. I have no idea up to what spell levels they have access to because of that or how many spell slots they have.

1. What is this "caster level" of which you speak? (For real though, there is no such thing as "caster level" in 5e--and for that I say "good riddance to bad rubbish.")
2. He has access to the listed spells, plus whatever you feel is appropriate for being in his fancy "can contain anything, even magic mere mortals can't use" stuff. Unless you just mean in general, in which case, it would be "the creature has access to the listed spells, and it's on you if you want them to cast anything else anyway." How is this any different from homebrewing any other creature?

For real, I don't understand what your issue is. The first thing literally doesn't exist in 5e, and the second is either "whatever you want" or "whatever you want, with more steps."