D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

Yeah, I wouldn't call 4e superior to 5e. 5e has a lot of changes that I think are very good. Faster play being probably the biggest one.

4e is probably better designed overall, for the simple fact that the rules work, without any intervention from the DM, most of the time. Going back to the biggest issue for me which the new caster stat block addresses - the fact that DM's can't actually run high level casters in combat without making mistakes. This wasn't an issue in 4e very often because the monsters were FAR easier to run than they are in 5e. You have way less overhead with a given monster in 4e than you do in 5e.

So, yeah, as far as monster go, I'm going to have to give that to 4e. The fact that you can fit the rules for monster design on a business card and it still works 99.9% of the time is fantastic. Trying to design ground up monsters in 5e is far more challenging and far more prone to mistakes because the rules are nowhere near as clear.
Which was 4e downfall. It misread the interest in those within the video game, tactical war game market as what was the driving motivation for those who play them. 4e has a lot of good ideas but it was so perfectly fitted together it has players and DMs tearing it apart at the seams screaming "freedom".

The sad part is 4e actually did handle that aspect well but failed to present it in a way DMs could utilize it. so...yea they didn't learn nothing lol.
 

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I've found magic missile to be a quick and easy way to finish a monster off who is low on hp but still standing.

No need to waste a high level spell in that situation.
I agree completely, but others will argue:

Why use magic missile, a cantrip doesn't cost any spell slots and does equal or better damage (in tier 3/4)...

To which, I say: :rolleyes:
 

OK, let's start from a common point. What do you consider the engine of D&D? I don't really think I can discuss this with you without understanding where you are coming from. Then we can discuss.

A few other comments...
Whereas to me, this is all how the engine is applied, not the engine itself. Progress rates are just bounded accuracy minus the rising number - the end result is exactly the same, a success rate of about 66% most of the time on most checks.
that completely misses the point of BA and its difference to 4e or 3e for that matter (and is also inaccurate for 5e at least).
Roles are very much still there. They just aren't called out.
They were there before 4e too, but 4e treated them a bit differently. 5e goes back to the pre-4e method. That is point.
Granted, tactical combat is much less of a thing in 5e, simply because 5e has combat that is so much shorter than 4e.
That is a part of it, but it misses the point that so many of the 4e powers did something more than damage (push, pull, inflict a condition, etc.). That is what made it tactical, not to mention the synergies between characters. If you think it is just combat length, then I think you missed a lot. I mean I can easily make a 5e combat last 5, 10, or more rounds. But I can't make a 5e character have the in print tactical options a 4e character has.
Paths and Destinies were never really important.
To some sure, to others they were.
And, stacking bonuses were, again, simply how the engine was applied.
Not sure what you mean, but it is different from 5e in that regard.
Powers? Got those.
No, nothing really close (except casters) to what 4e had.
Unified structure? Well, we got three now instead of 1, but, still mostly the same - and, after 3rd level, every class advances at exactly the same rate.
Not the same, really at all.
Like I said, to me, none of these things were all that important to 4e. They were how the rules were applied once you had certain assumptions - the assumption of longer combats, for example, meant that healing surges and tactical combat was more of a thing.
You deal realize Healing Surges, and the integration into the core of 4e, are fundamentally different from HD healing and healing in general in 5e?
Remove longer combats (how the rules are applied) and there's no longer a need for these.
There was never a need for them, it just how they built the game. And just making 5e longer does not do anything accommodate healing surges and how they actually limited healing.
But, you still have two step recovery, at-will, encounter and daily resources, although they aren't called that, so on and so forth.
Yes and now. Again, 4e was a unified design to a level that doesn't exist in 5e. And simple because you have some things that are similar, doesn't mean they are the same "engine" IMO. Of course, I have realized I have no idea what you mean by "engine." I hope you can clarify.
 


4th edition is also WHAT? That comment definitely fits a unicorn.

I mean, I liked it because I enjoy tactical combat and 4th was great at that, but superior? Not to 3rd or 5th. I'll give you 2nd, and probably 1st (which I didn't play.) I guess we all have our favorites for different reasons.
Well I said: "I think..." It was clearly my opinion. What is a superior game is in the eye of the beholder after all. At some point I want to work with my DM to create my ideal game. If / when I do that, it will be built off a 4e base. So to be clear:

For me, 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons is superior to 1e, 2e, 3e, and 5e. I prefer much of its lore and most of its mechanics.

I will say I do like BA and Advantage/Disadvantage and would probably incorporate a version of those in my "ultimate" game.
 


4ed had a lot of good going for it. But the part that was against it was its downfall. Casters.

Yep, casters. They all felt like the same class, fighters with funny names for their powers. The wizards and clerics in particular felt bland and tasteless and guess what? It was the same on the monster's side. Monster spell casters felt bland and tasteless to run. Just like the PCs as casters were bland and tasteless. They all lack the versatility of choosing their spells, the preparation for a definite situation which might not be the same as the one before or the next.

The caster strength is not in the damage it can dish out, it is in the variatiety of the situations it can cope with. Like it or hate it, the spell slot system of BECMI, 1ed, 2ed, 3.xed and 5ed did and still do the job almost perfectly. Be it on the PC's side or NPC's, it does the job. It might looks confusing for the inexperienced, but it is simply a matter of presentation in the MM and nothing else. Had they presented casting foes with highlighted spells useful In combat instead of jamming the selection with useless spells it would have been easier.

I do the exact thing I said with novice DM. I make a photocopy of the mage NPC in the MM and simply highlight the useful stuff for an encounter and guess what? It is almost as if I was a god to them. The new stat block simply do the same but it removes the rest. And that is this removal that makes these NPC special in the first place.

Prestidigitation might not do a lot in combat, but in an RP scene it might do quite a lot. And it is these small details that makes the game so much more believable and poignant. Adding details is not the the first instinctual thing to do when you start DMing and it is why the presence of some spell filler for RP is important. Because for the beginning DMs, if it is not written, it simply does not exists. And the new stat blocks just remove those. And like in 4ed, some foes suddenly becomes bland and tasteless automatons fit only for combat...
 

I
I apply a strict rule of:" If it is not not written, it does not have it." Period. Acting any otherwise would simply be cheating in my POV. So no, I would not add powers or items to a foe in the middle of the fight. If the group dies, it dies. If it kills my BBEG swiftly because of luck, great tactics or both, so be it. Easy fights or hard kne will not be modified because I feel like it. I do not fudge and roll.on the open. A gritty realism game we play and doing this, modifying a creature on the fly, would be disrespectful to my players.
Ok, then set aside 5 minutes before the session. Read the stat bloc and pencil in the margin, “shield, finger of frost, pet tarrasque”.

Solved.
 


Ok, then set aside 5 minutes before the session. Read the stat bloc and pencil in the margin, “shield, finger of frost, pet tarrasque”.

Solved.

This is really getting into Oberoni Fallacy territory. The biggest reason to use a well supported published game instead of some small indy game or writing my own is that there is a lot of ready-made stuff I can use off the rack. More effort I need to use to rewrite things for my liking, less incentive there is to actually buy WotC stuff.
 

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