New spells known for sorcerers

[Voadam]

Divine disciple is also in the Forgotten realms campaign setting Hardcover which also has the arcane devotee, for arcane followers of gods. The prereqs are knowledge religion 8 spellcraft 8 and enlarge spell. They get +1 spell level at each level, and they can further enlarge spells at level 1, get bonuses against divine spells at level 2 and a bonus feat at level 3. It sounds like what you are looking for, although I was not impressed with teh enlarge spell feat being central to a generic wizardly god chanmpion.

 

[Bonedagger]

Are we to take it from your statement that you feel that sorcerers are munchkin? If so, why would you think that, what the gain in staying power they lose in versatility.

Being a munchkin has something to do with your reasons for taking a special skill, class etc.

Whenever I play an arcane spell caster I allways chose socerer, because of, one they get more spells per day

And this is certainly relative.

...and, two it is not as munchy as the wizard because its main stat is not as useful as intelligence.

 

[Chun-tzu]

IMO, the best PrC for a Sorcerer is the Divine Disciple. You get a better hit die, neat special abilities, and free additional domain spells.

I don't see how a Sorcerer is going to become a Divine Disciple. The requirements specify the ability to cast 4th level divine spells, spells per day specifies improvement in an existing divine spellcasting class, and the flavor text says, "Divine disciples are always divine spellcasters" (FRCS, page 43).

You can't be confused with the arcane devotee, either, since the arcane devotee doesn't get a better hit die or domain spells.

(BTW, the Divine Disciple is not in Manual of the Planes, only FRCS.)

 

[Uller]

Whenever I play an arcane spell caster I allways chose socerer, because of, one they get more spells per day and, two it is not as munchy as the wizard because its main stat is not as useful as intelligence. But, I believe one there should be new ways for sorcerers to get new spells known, not just from wishing andspell advancement, and I believe that they should also get new abilities ever so often. ( Allmost every other class gains new abilities.)

First off, there is more to being a munchkin than picking a particular class over another. One could easily claim that sorcerers are more "munchy" than wizards because of their absurd numbers of spells per day(and because they are...it's a known fact, so don't argue).

Secondly, it sounds like you want the best of both worlds: You want the sorcerer's spells per day, but you don't want to be locked into the sorcerer's spells known.

They do get new abilities every level...they're called _spells_. :rolleyes"
[/troll]

Okay seriously...I know exactly what you mean. I used to play a Rogue/Sorcerer. I chose src over wiz because it fit my concept better. I didn't see my character as a "bookworm" but more of a natural talent. But I quickly discovered that the slower spell advancement made things rather unworkable at the lower-mid levels. While the party wizard was casting Fireballs and Haste, I was still stuck with chill touch...I'd have been far better off with wizard from a "munchkin" point of view. To solve this, as DM, I allow sorcerers to gain bonus spells one level early if their charisma is high enough(just like the bard), but at a cost of _two_(or 1 at third level) lower level spells. For instance, a Src3 with at least a 14 cha could learn a 2nd level spell instead of the 1st level one he would normally get. At 4th level he would then "catch up". Or at 7th level, if he has at least an 18 cha, he could learn a single 4th level spell instead of his 2nd and 3rd level spells, then at 8th, he'd catch up with those. This higher level spell can be cast but once per day.

Seems fair to me. You can learn a higher level spell and cast it once or two lower level ones and cast them often. This especially helps keep multiclassed sorcerers learning spells before they become nearly useless.

 

[StealthyMark]

IMO, the best PrC for a Sorcerer is the Divine Disciple. You get a better hit die, neat special abilities, and free additional domain spells.

You meant Divine Oracle (Defenders of the Faith), didn't you? You'd get the Divination Prestige Domain, Evasion and Uncanny Dodge.

Other powerful prestige classes include Arcane Devotee (FRCS), Incantatrix (MoF), Archmage (FRCS) and Virtuoso (S&S).

 

[Spatzimaus]

Well, this one has been done to death, but here goes. If you're a Sorcerer, there are already a few options out there. Prestige Classes, use a lot of Wands, whatever.

I've made a couple Feats for my campaign that have seemed to work pretty well. Here's one you could use; I'm doing it from memory, so the wording isn't even close, tweak as needed, and add whatever prerequisites you want.

Altered Repertoire
(Bards or Sorcerers only)
Normally, the caster's CHA bonus increases his spells per day. With this Feat, his CHA bonus increases his spells known instead. Only his "permanent" CHA is affected this way; "temporary" CHA due to spells (positive or negative) or items provides bonus spells per day as if his base CHA was 10. You still use your full CHA (items and spells included) for skill modifiers, determining what level of spell you can cast, and so on.
You can't gain a known spell of a level you're not capable of casting yet, same as before.

For example, take a Sorcerer with a 20 CHA and a +6 Cloak of Charisma. Normally, this would give him bonus spells per day for a CHA of 26: 2/2/2/2/1/1/1/1. With this Feat, he'd have 2/1/1/1/1 extra known spells (the CHA 20 line), and 1/1/1 extra spells per day (the CHA 16 line for a base of 10 plus 6 for the cloak).

Effectively you're trading a large number of spells per day (some of which will be high-level ones) for a smaller number of known spells (most of which will be low level).

 

[Andor of the Blade]

For a truly "optimized" sorceror, take
Divine Oracle (DoF) - you can qualify for this after seven levels. This gives you a domain (I forget what it's called) with spells such as Scry, Greater Scrying, Mindblank and Foresight. It also gives "Knowledge: Religion" as a class skill. At third level you get Prescience which is basically Evasion.

Now with "Knowledge: Religion" as a class skill put skill points into it. It is easy to now qualify for Arcane Devotee (FR). This basically gives you the Enlarge Spell feat for free (along with other goodies), if you take three levels in it. It also gives "Knowledge: All areas" as a class skill.

Now put your skill points into "Knowledge: The Planes". You quickly qualify for Sacred Exorcist (DoF). This gives the Exorcism Domain including Holy Word, Holy Aura, Pro from Evil and other great spells. It also gives D8 hit dice, the ability to turn undead and the ability to "detect evil" at will (at second level).

The combination of Holy Word and Enlarge Spell can be devastating.

Since the prestige classes are all very religious in nature, it is even a logical path for a sorceror character to follow.

 

[Lily Inverse]

Clear me up on something, but....

Don't you need to have domain-spell SLOTS to take advantage of domains? IE, a sorcerer only gains benefit from the granted abilities if he gains access to prestiege domains without having levels in cleric. Point me to where it's listed that gaining an ability without the prerequisites allows you to use the ability.

 

[Jens]

Nope, you dont. T&B describes how a sorcerer can benefit from domain spells. To a sorcerer, they simply add to his spells known.

Andor of the Blade: It is true that you can go Divine Oracle after 7th level, but one of those levels (say, the first?) can be a of a different class, such as Paladin. That will give you a head start on Religion, and a few HPs as well. Not to mention getting to add your Cha to your saves Not too shabby, and it's holy too!

 

[Andor of the Blade]

Jens:

True enough, but that limits your character to Lawful-Good alignment and very much restricts the race (due to XP penalties).

An alternative to taking a level of Paladin, is to take a level of Divine Contemplative (DoF). The PC gains another domain but the spells must be treated as Clerical (cannot be added to the sorceror's known spell list, but can be cast as clerical spells). However the PC does receive the other benefits of the domain. There is a domain in DoF (I think it's Celerity but I'm not sure) that grants Divine Grace (i.e., Charisma bonus to saving throws). Since it is a prestige class, there are no multi-class XP penalties and the alignment restrictions are Good or Evil.