new to DM-ing, help with incapacitating a Bronze Dragon in alternate form

[kasmodian]

Soooo here's the deal. I'm new to DM-ing and I'm trying my best to work out a little idea through the game mechanics and not just DM hammer everything.

This is all part of a set up for an adventure for the PCs. So here's the situation, a Bronze Dragon (great wyrm, venerated by the locals) takes the form of an elf to hang out, mingle with the peeps incognito. But he's unwittingly caught in a surprise attack where his significantly inferior physical stats make him vulnerable. What I want is for him to a) be alive, b) be incapacitated physically, mentally or both in such a way that he is either unable to or doesn't even remember he can switch back to his true form. One thing to keep in mind is the PCs won't be around for this so I don't know how detailed I need to get with this. anyway...

So I looked at paralysis and that looked like a feasible way to go since it's a fortitude save (which he'll still have a monstrous huge save, I figure this is an attack from multiple, high level casters). But that leaves him with his mental facilities, so I wanted to, through some kind of nasty fall (again, he's a frail elf), knock his head and give him some sort of amnesia. It's somewhat awkward thanks to the fact he still maintains his mental stats, but I figured this situation is sort of the crossroads where physical frailty and mental function meet, you knock your head on a rock as a mere elf and all the brainpower in the world isn't going to mean much when you damage your noodle.

Does this sound reasonable? Any other ways I might do this? If you were pulling this off would you even care about doing it this mechanically? Again... new to DM-ing. Any and all help is much appreciated!!

 

[HoboGod]

Well, being DM, you have access to more options than your players. Remember that you determine real-life mechanics and circumstantial penalties to DC. For example, DMs in our group tend to be jokers, if you fall from your flying mount, high above a pit of lava, you have to make a DC 15 fortitude save to stop from craping your pants and one of your friends has to make a DC 20 reflex save to catch you. Now, the circumstanses make that DC go up or down. If your character is afraid of heights, the Fortitude DC goes up. If your friend is within 10 ft of you when you fell or riding the same mount, the Reflex DC goes down.

Now, you want this character to get some kind of brain damage, well just make a brain damage table. Start at DC 15 Fort for massive trauma to the head. Your dragon was heavily drinking that night, DC goes up. Some nympho slipped him a ruffie before he suffered the trauma, DC goes up. He fell on a glass bottle and a piece of glass got lodged in his brain, the DC goes up. The people who found him brought him to the wrong cleric, the DC goes up. Keep adding more and more unfortunate coincidences and it doesn't matter what kind of fortitude save he has.

 

[freyar]

You might check the spell feeblemind, which will reduce his Int and Cha to 1. Since the dragon can cast arcane spells, he'll even take a -4 to his Will save! Of course, his Will save is still at +25. One issue might be what level the PCs are, since it takes at least a heal spell to reverse the feeblemind.

 

[Jack Simth]

Soooo here's the deal. I'm new to DM-ing and I'm trying my best to work out a little idea through the game mechanics and not just DM hammer everything.

This is all part of a set up for an adventure for the PCs. So here's the situation, a Bronze Dragon (great wyrm, venerated by the locals) takes the form of an elf to hang out, mingle with the peeps incognito. But he's unwittingly caught in a surprise attack where his significantly inferior physical stats make him vulnerable. What I want is for him to a) be alive, b) be incapacitated physically, mentally or both in such a way that he is either unable to or doesn't even remember he can switch back to his true form. One thing to keep in mind is the PCs won't be around for this so I don't know how detailed I need to get with this. anyway...

So I looked at paralysis and that looked like a feasible way to go since it's a fortitude save (which he'll still have a monstrous huge save, I figure this is an attack from multiple, high level casters). But that leaves him with his mental facilities, so I wanted to, through some kind of nasty fall (again, he's a frail elf), knock his head and give him some sort of amnesia. It's somewhat awkward thanks to the fact he still maintains his mental stats, but I figured this situation is sort of the crossroads where physical frailty and mental function meet, you knock your head on a rock as a mere elf and all the brainpower in the world isn't going to mean much when you damage your noodle.

Does this sound reasonable? Any other ways I might do this? If you were pulling this off would you even care about doing it this mechanically? Again... new to DM-ing. Any and all help is much appreciated!!

He maintains his Dragon type in alternate form, so regular Sleep and Paralysis effects are a no-go.

However, if you're doing the "hit his head" bit, you can do that aspect rules-lite. Strength or Dex damage will incapacitate the strength-10, Dex-12 Alternate Form'd "elf" to the point of paralysis without actually having to deal with the fact that the Dragon is immune to paralysis - so he can fall and bonk his head, no problem (other than the headache and the amnesia). There's poisons for either type of damage, and Shivering Touch deals Dex damage. Sure, poison is "fort negates", and a Great Wyrm Brozne has a BIG fort save, but hey - lots of Small arrows enchanted with, say, Greater Magic Weapon (to penetrate DR/Magic) will do it when you've got an AC of 11 and a small army of attackers (or maybe he just rolled a string of 1's).

 

[Divide]

I'd say create a spell or stick to a series of unfortunate events leading up to the memory loss.

You could say that someone was plotting this attack, knew how and when to attack the dragon and when he would be in elf form. If they had been spending years or even decades plotting this dragon's downfall, they could very easily have spent time crafting a new spell designed to wipe your dragon's memory. This would make for a formidable opponent, even for higher level PC's and allow you to have an overarching villain throughout a story.

I've spent more time as a player than a DM, but one thing that I've learned when I have DM'ed is that it's not so much important the HOW of something happens, it's more important to the WHY and WHO. That is, of course, unless you have a very specific reason for wanting to deconstruct it and make it work; For example, if your players are going back in time to stop the event, you might want to build a technical flowchart of round by round "this guy does this, now this guy does that". But even then I would say fudge a spell up and make it work.

If you do end up going that route, make the spell have somewhat "realistic" parameters. Multiple rounds to cast and cast by multiple highlevel wizards in some type of ritual maybe? Or even if you do it in one round, it would probably have to be cast by another Dragon or something of that nature.

Basically: Sweat the details only when you need to or when it's for a purpose. Everything else, flavor it with believable text and your players won't care that it's not in the PHB.

 

[kasmodian]

I'd say create a spell or stick to a series of unfortunate events leading up to the memory loss.

You could say that someone was plotting this attack, knew how and when to attack the dragon and when he would be in elf form. If they had been spending years or even decades plotting this dragon's downfall, they could very easily have spent time crafting a new spell designed to wipe your dragon's memory. This would make for a formidable opponent, even for higher level PC's and allow you to have an overarching villain throughout a story...

Basically: Sweat the details only when you need to or when it's for a purpose. Everything else, flavor it with believable text and your players won't care that it's not in the PHB.

You sir win the +5 magic cookie. That's exactly what I'm doing, a villain (or group of them for sure) is behind this and will be involved in a fairly significant story arc of the PC's adventure. They're starting at ECL 8 but this arc will take some time.

I really appreciate everyones help!! As a first time DM I didn't want to get in the habit of fudging too much, yet I didn't want to shackle a good story line for the sake of strictly upholding the rules.

Thanks again guys!!!