New to Forums, Looking for Skill Encounter Help

[Trit One-Ear]

Hey everyone,

This is my first time posting on these forums, but they sound like the perfect place to bounce some of my ideas around. I'm currently writing my first adventure/campaign for my game group. We recently finished Seekers of the Ashen Crown and want to keep going strong.

One issue I'm having is designing skill encounters. The one I'm struggling with at the moment is a diplomatic encounter with a upscale "lady of the night" who knows the where-abouts of a criminal the party is trying to track down. Besides basic interaction skills such as Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Insight etc I'm having trouble thinking of other skills (especially physical ones) that might be helpful.

I have many questions about running skill encounters, but I'll start with any advice you all have on how to design first!
Thanks all.

Trit

 

[Colmarr]

It really depends on how you frame the encounter.

If the encounter consists solely of talking to the 'lady', then you're pretty much stuck with the conversational skills (don't, for the love of the gods, allow rubbish like "I do pushups to impress her. Can I roll Athletics?").

If you widen it to include 'solving problems' for her, then you make intimidate, thievery and a whole host of other skills available, and if you consider that the PCs might prepare for this challenge before the encounter begins, such as by using Streetwise to find out more about her, a few more skills become relevant.

My personal rule of thumb is that complexity 1 challenges are suitable for encounters that last seconds or minutes (such as a conversation). Complexity 2 challenges are suitable for encounters that last hours, and complexity 3 is suitable for challenges that last days. To put it another way, don't make a simple scene (such as a conversation) into a complex challenge.

The higher the complexity (and/or the longer the duration), the wider the variety of skills that can conceivably be incorporated into the challenge without damaging your suspension of disbelief.

 

[RavenBlackthorne]

Don't forget you've got skills like insight to tell whether she's hiding or implying something, history to corroborate what she's saying about the town, streetwise to have remembered a rumour that matches what she's saying.

And to further what [MENTION=59182]Colmarr[/MENTION] said, it doesn't always have to be a complex situation (although it can be if the situation demands it). I also would like to put in for actually having a skill encounter where physical things won't help. It gives those who have made a character with social/mental skills validation and allows those without to have some humourous/struggling development.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

The one caveat I'd add to RavenBlackthorne's suggestion that it's not a bad idea to have encounters that are purely social is that when you present that encounter, don't force PCs who don't have appropriate skills to participate -- at least give them a way they can not hurt the party's efforts too badly -- checks made to assist that, if failed, don't generate failures, etc.

I'd also recommend that you not let yourself feel like anything about the way skill challenges works is graven in stone. Feel free to do anything you feel like -- your players will let you know if it works or not.

 

[RavenBlackthorne]

The one caveat I'd add to RavenBlackthorne's suggestion that it's not a bad idea to have encounters that are purely social is that when you present that encounter, don't force PCs who don't have appropriate skills to participate -- at least give them a way they can not hurt the party's efforts too badly -- checks made to assist that, if failed, don't generate failures, etc.

I'd also recommend that you not let yourself feel like anything about the way skill challenges works is graven in stone. Feel free to do anything you feel like -- your players will let you know if it works or not.

Literally all of this. My apologies, I made my comment under the assumption you knew me and that I try to be inclusive in all my games. Of course,this is the Internet and you have no idea who I am. It was early when I posted!

 

[Nullzone]

What if you didn't assign any skills at all?

Identify your DCs but don't define any specific skills to be used; present the problem to the players and let them work out a solution. Then identify a skill roll that applies to their pitched idea.

I've found that, more often than not, the players build your skill challenge for you

 

[Trit One-Ear]

Excellent everyone, some really helpful ideas. This encounter is early in the story, so I may keep it simple and just set it at a low complexity. The use of History/Streetwise ect helps open it up a bit, as my players have a tendency to each pick at least a few knowledge skills if not interaction skills. Keeping everyone involved will be easier for a shorter/less complex encounter. Since they're trying to gain information about an individual who has recently visited I can add Perception to the mix, having players spot evidence of his presence.

Thanks for your help everyone, I have no doubt I'll be back with more questions in the future!

Best wishes,
Trit

 

[[OMENRPG]Ben]

Not sure if this is too late Trit, but you can make skill challenges more organic and less a matrix of how many successes vs. failures.

What I mean to say is approach like a realistic situation: if the party is trying to get information out of her, allow them to speak in character and roll to augment the effect. If they say something in character that could be construed as rude or improper, but roll high enough to clear it up, that could be counted as one of your "failures" but the entirety of the encounter isn't ended.

As someone else suggested allowing for them to do favors for her, this is common in a lot of stories (especially video games); the character must go do some quest in order to gain the trust of the individual who he or she seeks information from.

You could make it a whole side-quest arc! But, I digress. Be creative and allow your players some flexibility, and everyone will have more fun.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6678017]Trit One-Ear[/MENTION]
The million dollar question is: What happens if they fail to get the information they're looking for?

If this is a clue they *need* to continue in the adventure, then you've got to give it to them. Period. So in this case success or failure at the skill challenge doesn't mean whether or not they get the info (cause they automatically do), but whether the "lady of the night" confides in them that she was threatened by the killer (with a bonus clue helpful in the fight), or she is still frightened and tells the killer the PCs are onto him (in exchange for gold). Or something like that.

On the other hand, if there are multiple routes they can take to tracking the killer, and not getting info from "lady of the night" won't stop them dead in their tracks, then go for it as others have suggested... Ex. Perception notices the thin bruise she tries to hide when the killer intimidated her with a garrote around her neck.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

@Quickleaf
I had wondered about that as well. My idea, since this is a low-complexity encounter (roughly the xp of one monster), is that if the heroes should fail, she would give them -some- of the information, and then tip off the person of interested they're after, giving him time to scrounge up another thug or two to help in later encounters. Making up for the xp loss, and punishing the heroes for failing the encounter, without derailing the adventure.

Thoughts?

Also, [MENTION=59182]Colmarr[/MENTION], I really like your break-down on how you use complexity based on length of encounter. How do complexities of 4 or 5 fit in? Or do you find those not usefully lengths? The few skill encounters I've run with my group are always fun at first, but for harder complexities, they seem to lose their appeal after the first few rounds.