D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[MarkB]

What if you cast spiked growth, turn into a ram, and headbutt enemies into it?
Or if you summon a wolf, turn into a wolf?

Low AC causes 2 problems.
One is hit points, which an be solved with temporary ones. Either per turn or just a bucket at the start. I keep flip flopping on which I like better.

Two is concentration.
Which I'm leaning towards just +Wis to concentration checks in wild shape as the simplest.

And Druid spells are about 50% concentration, the highest in the game (excluding paladin smites, which are changing. And paladins have both high AC and +Cha to their saves).

How about:
Saving throw proficiencies are CON and WIS instead of INT and WIS.
Replace STR and CON with your WIS score in wild shape form instead of STR and DEX.

 

[Enrahim2]

How about:
Saving throw proficiencies are CON and WIS instead of INT and WIS.
Replace STR and CON with your WIS score in wild shape form instead of STR and DEX.

Issue with changing con is that you then get into the weeds of the details around changing HP maximum. And the less you have to interact with those outside leveling, the better I think.

 

[Enrahim2]

What if you cast spiked growth, turn into a ram, and headbutt enemies into it?
Or if you summon a wolf, turn into a wolf?

Low AC causes 2 problems.
One is hit points, which an be solved with temporary ones. Either per turn or just a bucket at the start. I keep flip flopping on which I like better.

Two is concentration.
Which I'm leaning towards just +Wis to concentration checks in wild shape as the simplest.

And Druid spells are about 50% concentration, the highest in the game (excluding paladin smites, which are changing. And paladins have both high AC and +Cha to their saves).

Here's another thought: How about if a druid in wild shape can chose to drop the wild shape insted of loosing concentration if they fail a concentration check? This could both emulate the 5ed effect of losing the wild shape when losing all the beast hp, and give an incentive for druids to go into shape to gain the extra buffer against losing an important effect.

 

[Gorck]

How about:
Saving throw proficiencies are CON and WIS instead of INT and WIS.
Replace STR and CON with your WIS score in wild shape form instead of STR and DEX.

In terms of class design, there are three primary saves (DEX, CON, & WIS) and three secondary saves (STR, INT, & CHA). So far as I can remember, every class has one of each.

Your proposal would give the Druid two primary saves.

 

[Remathilis]

Issue with changing con is that you then get into the weeds of the details around changing HP maximum. And the less you have to interact with those outside leveling, the better I think.

How about: "When in wild shape, you can make a Wisdom saving throw instead of Constitution saving throw when attempting to maintain Concentration"?

 

[mellored]

Your proposal would give the Druid two primary saves.

Playtest rogues get Dex and Int at level 1, and then Wis and Cha at 15 (?)
Monks get all saves at 14.
Gloom stalker gets Wis at 7.

So giving Con saves to druids at some point wouldn't be out of line. Probably needs to be up a few levels though.

 

[mellored]

Here's another thought: How about if a druid in wild shape can chose to drop the wild shape insted of loosing concentration if they fail a concentration check? This could both emulate the 5ed effect of losing the wild shape when losing all the beast hp, and give an incentive for druids to go into shape to gain the extra buffer against losing an important effect.

That works well for both regular and moon druids.

1: Damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
-Primal Toughness: when you start your turn in wild shape, you gain temporary hit points equal to twice your Druid level
-Shifting Defense: as a reaction when you take damage or fail a concentration checks while in wild shape, you can end your form early.
If you do so, you gain resistance to the triggering attack and automatically succeed on any concentration save. You can make this decision after you see the results of the roll, potentially changing the outcome.

Level 5: Alternating Forms

Level 11: Primal Instinct: You gain proficiency in Constitution and Strength saving throws.

Moon druid
Bonus action transform
Increase the number of temporary hit points you gain in wild shape to 3 per druid level.
Increase damage die to d10.
Bonus action unarmed attack

Level 6: more variety of shapes (snake, spider, turtle). Includes multi-attack.

 

[Minigiant]

4e's Martial Power book gave the ranger beast categories for its companion. Perhaps those could be the forms of the ODND druid.

• Bear
  • Climb and Swim Speed
• Boar
  • Charge Attack
• Cat
  • Stealth Proficiency
• Lizard
  • Swim Speed
  • +2 AC
• Raptor
  • Perception Proficiency
  • Fly Speed
• Serpent
  • Swim speed
  • Squeeze to Tiny
• Spider
  • Climb speed (spider climb)
• Wolf
  • Perception Proficiency

 

[Remathilis]

4e's Martial Power book gave the ranger beast categories for its companion. Perhaps those could be the forms of the ODND druid.

• Bear
  • Climb and Swim Speed
• Boar
  • Charge Attack
• Cat
  • Stealth Proficiency
• Lizard
  • Swim Speed
  • +2 AC
• Raptor
  • Perception Proficiency
  • Fly Speed
• Serpent
  • Swim speed
  • Squeeze to Tiny
• Spider
  • Climb speed (spider climb)
• Wolf
  • Perception Proficiency

I like the idea in theory, but the problem is there are lots of animals that aren't good for combat that a druid might want to transform into (horses, cows, camels, etc.) That said, some of those powers would be excellent options for the generic stat block.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I could get behind the template idea - I have tried...but I still fear that we are taking a ton of creativity away from players in exchange for simplicity and standardization. The problem with moon druids being OP at low levels is a separate issue that could be addressed in a number of ways.

That's the thing: you aren't taking creativity away from players. You are taking the system mastery barrier away in exchange for imagination. You will no longer have to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the available options, and will have much more freedom to flavour according to your character concept and imagination. Instead of turning into "another bear" or "creature X that appeared in adventure y", the player can choose whatever their wildshape looks like and has the stats for it there and then.
It removed something that new Druid players struggle with and potential balance issues. (Remember the Fleshraker?)

Now, I definitely think that there should be scope for more abilities and mechanical customisation in wild shape than that currently shown. But that can come from spending spell slots to gain special abilities when using Wild Shape.

Things I currently like and would hate to lose:

1. the freedom druid players have to be creative and come up with wild shapes to solve problems. This emphatically includes being able to become something tiny with 1HP and all the risk that entails.

2. the ability of moon druids to tank effectively.

3. wild shapes being explicitly tied to specific animal forms.

4. elemental form being a significant upgrade.

1. Coming up with the right shape to solve problems has generally been more about knowing all the stats in the monster manuals than creativity. Druids have always been able to outdo a lot of what the martial classes are capable of outside combat.
That's bad, right?

2. Suggestion: Moon Druid: While in wild shape form, the druid has resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing Damage.

3 Happy to see it gone.

4. Mood Druids are about animal forms. There may well be other subclasses of druid that can transform into actual elementals.