Newbie avenger questions

[Lesker]

Hi there.

We are starting a new campaign in march and I'd like to ask some questions about deva avenger which I'd like to play. The reason is simple: it looks cool to me. But I also want to remain effective member of a party.

Is he/she usefull in small party (3-4 people)?

Is he/she usefull without Dungeon/Dragon magazine content? I've read that there are some significant boosts there... We can use PHB1/2, Forgtten Realms and all Power books except MP2 is that enough?

How does the censures and oath work in real combat situations? It looks pretty good on the paper but you know... Appearance is deceiving.

Thanks for help.

 

[talarei07]

i have a player whos been playing one since may and he really loves it. it works well if you can isolate your oath from other enemies

 

[kilpatds]

It works just fine in a small party. Like anyone else with a good potential Melee Basic, you'd like the party to include a Warlord, but it's not required.

Dragon Content is not required. At 11th level, Painful Oath is quite good (Dragon only), and at 21st level Hand of Divine Guidance is very good (Dragon Only), but that's about it. Painful Oath can be ignored... ignoring Hand of Divine Guidance is harder, but that's also at 21st level, and it may be in a Dragon Annual by then.

I've found I always get my Oath rerolls, and never get my Censure Bonus unless (except Censure of Unity), but that's always DM dependent. Don't go looking to hard for your Censure bonus unless you're feeling dramatically underpowered. Censure of Unity is the easiest to get, and also keeps you fighting in formations, which makes it easier to get your Oath rerolls too, so that's my general "Avenger in Easy Mode" advice.

Last note: You won't do as much damage on a hit as your Warden/Barbarian/Rogue counterparts. The key to your damage isn't big hits, it's not missing. Always get your oath rerolls. Ignore any ranged powers except Bond of Censure, because you won't get your rerolls. (Oh, and Temple of Brilliance. Because it just doesn't matter if that one misses)

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Do you have a leader class in your party? If not, multiclass cleric and you'll get Healing Word once a day. It can also be used on an ally.

It will set you up for Radiant Servant PP at 11th, with a lot of advantages, such as a 19-20 crit range, an actual useable encounter (Solar Wrath), and works well down the road with Pursuit Avengers.

It takes extra feats, but if you can get 2 weapons and go 2 weapon fighting with 2 weapon defense and opening, with the increased crit range, you'll start laying out some real hurt on your opponents.

If your DM allows consumables, grab healing potions, regeneration potions, and augmenting whetstones. Win-win-win all the way around with these.

If you have a defender class in your group, learn to work with them, and focus fire. Did I mention focus fire? It can make a big difference.

Have fun, and let us know how it goes! I'm playing in a campaign at our local county library and we just reached 11th. The DMs were a bit rough at first, but they have mellowed out a bit now and we are having quite a bit of fun. I'm playing an Avenger as well - I've got 2 hammers and he rules.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, its a bit over-powered and over the top, but another suggestion would be to pick Half-Elf for your race, and pick Twin Strike for your Dilettante power. When you hit 11th level, use Versatile Master to make Twin Strike an at-will power. Take Student of Caiphon or Radiant Servant for your Paragon Path.

Twin Stike, plus 2 weapons and the associated 2 weapon feats, plus the Avengers class Oath of Enmity power, plus a crit range of either 18-20 or 19-20 = pretty good DPR.

Just a thought.

 

[DracoSuave]

When you hit 11th level, use Versatile Master to make Twin Strike an at-will power.

Any character-op plan that involves being sub-optimal for 1/3 of your career, is not an optimized character.

Also, take the DP feat that gives you a Channel Divinity from another class.

You'll want the one that clerics can get that heals bloodied friends. THAT is some GOOOOD CD power, for when the others aren't so helpful.

 

[fba827]

my group has seen 2 avengers in play over the course of different campaigns, and at least 2 players who are waiting to try the class given a good opportunity. And none of the players have used dragon/dungeon material (just PHB2 and divine power content)

Those that have played it really do enjoy it.

For a small party (as you said) the unity class feature (from Divine Power) probably won't be as good since it keys off number of allies in a certain situation. So you may be better off with a persuit or retribution build, depending on which is more your style of play.

As for how the censures work out in play, the key really is to pick your targets carefully -- find a target who is likely to stay isolated or at the edge of combat (so that you can get your oath reroll benefit). Staying in the middle of the main combat area means you won't be able to use your oath reroll much, and that's not a good thing. Or if you think you will be stuck in the middle of the combat field, then lean towards the censure of retribution because that increases damage if you will be hit more often.

As kilpatds noted - don't assume because he has the role 'striker' that he is all about doing as much damage as a barbarian, sorcerer, or rogue - it instead does slightly-higher than average damage than nonstriker classes comparatively. Your key here is that you are highly accurate and fewer rounds will go by that you miss (presuming you're able to use your oath of enmity). Of course, that's not to say he can't do higher damage depending on your race/feat/etc choices, just that it isn't a default in the class like it is for a class like sorcerer.

anyway, just my observations from my group.

 

[BobTheNob]

It takes extra feats, but if you can get 2 weapons and go 2 weapon fighting with 2 weapon defense and opening, with the increased crit range, you'll start laying out some real hurt on your opponents.

This is very true, but also understand that the builds I have seen doing this are the single cheesiest things I have seen in the entirity of 4th edition.

I so hate the Half elf, twin striking avenger/daggermaster. It makes me want to barf

 

[kilpatds]

This is very true, but also understand that the builds I have seen doing this are the single cheesiest things I have seen in the entirity of 4th edition.

I so hate the Half elf, twin striking avenger/daggermaster. It makes me want to barf

Me too. Don't they know about Student of Caiphon and Radiant Doubleaxes?

(Ok, ok, just kidding. Could you put down the pitchfork?)

 

[BobTheNob]

Me too. Don't they know about Student of Caiphon and Radiant Doubleaxes?

(Ok, ok, just kidding. Could you put down the pitchfork?)

"After vommiting up bad cheese, BobTheNob picks up his pitchfork and starts loking for the Student of Caiphon with the Radiant Doubleaxes!"