D&D 5E (2024) Next issue of Game Informer will have details on the two upcoming Forgotten Realms books

[Demetrios1453]

Based on what @GarrettKP has shown of the 10 region-based Backgrounds, I think we misinterpreted the Game Informer article on regards to the 10 regions, because the regional Backgrounds seem to touch on the Dalelands, Icewind Dale, the Moonshaes, Calimshan...and Thesk?? I half wonder if the third DLC will be Gazateera for 5 more locals that get the Baclgroudns in the Heroes book.

@GarrettKP quoted from the Game Informer article many pages ago on this thread thread:

“Adventures in Faerûn acts as the companion book to that player volume, and its focus is precisely what the title suggests. This dungeon master-targeted product is chock-full of over 50 adventures, some lengthy, and some built as extremely short one-offs that can be picked up and played with little to no prep.

“We divide the Forgotten Realms up into 10 regions, from arcane empires like Thay, Aglarond or Rashemen, right up to the far cold reaches of the north,” Tondro says. Each of those “10 regions has its own flavor of fantasy adventure, and we illustrate that with the one-page adventures.” These shorter adventures are cleverly constructed, with easy-to-read tabs that tell you the suggested level alongside the very briefest description to communicate the tone you might be looking for in your evening’s play session.”

That definitely seems to imply that the 10 regions are large areas (Thay, Aglarond, and Rashemen are traditionally grouped together in one region as the "Unapproachable East), and "We divide the Forgotten Realms up into 10 regions" indicates that every location in the setting will be part of one of these regions (otherwise they would say "We feature 10 regions" instead of "We divide"). As argued before, you can easilly divide the setting up into 10 large, coherent regions (of the size of the grouping of Thay, Aglarond, and Rashemen, as mentioned in the quote), while trying to divide it up into just 5 large regions after reserving 5 for the mini-settings would be much more difficult to do without forceably including vastly differeing locations in a each location. Also, with 38 feats, there's more than enough to spread around as regional feats, even potentially having feats for multiple smaller locations, and still have plenty to spare for non-regional feats.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I hadn't heard of the same issues surrounding Calimsham as I had around Kara-Tur and Maztica. Just being non-Western isn't the issue with those two settings -- it's the execution. (Especially with Maztica.)

Calimshan certainly posed issues - if it didn't, they wouldn't have brought in an outside consultant!

Given the time leap from 3e to 4e, re-doing the execution to something more acceptable wouldn't be much of an issue for Kara-Tur. Maztica, with its overt themes of colonialism, would obviously be much harder to thread the needle.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Calimshan certainly posed issues - if it didn't, they wouldn't have brought in an outside consultant!

Given that WotC managed to make Spelljammer problematic, I think it's probably a good idea for them to do that generally.

But when I've heard about problematic Forgotten Realms areas, Maztica's "hooray, colonialism" and "let's put all of Asia into a blender and call it Kara-Tur" get brought up a lot, and occasionally some of the missteps in Al-Qadim (although people seem to agree that TSR did much better with it).

I haven't ever heard the same about Calimsham, although I don't think it ever got a full line of products like the others did, so maybe I just missed the discourse.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

(I would still bet against them ever fully engaging with Kara-Tur or Maztica again, though, especially now that they have the Radiant Citadel settings.)

They just released an original Japanese language adventure called Oni's Right Hand with pregen characters that explicitly come from Kara-Tur (though the adventure itself is set in Phadalin, as I understand it).

Not conclusive, by any means, but if they're going to use Kara-Tur as a place of origin for East Asian flavored PCs in a product specifically written for an East Asian audience, I think it fairly plausible that there might be some interest in revisiting the region more properly.

Different company, obviously, but Pathfinder's Tian Xia sourcebook is a banger, and saying "Why do Kara-Tur when they have Radiant Citadel?" feels a lot like the "Why do Sigil when they have Ravnica?" argument I heard back before 5e Planescape got announced.

They'd need to do it right, obviously, but I think there's a decent market for an updated Kara-Tur.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Given that WotC managed to make Spelljammer problematic, I think it's probably a good idea for them to do that generally.

But when I've heard about problematic Forgotten Realms areas, Maztica's "hooray, colonialism" and "let's put all of Asia into a blender and call it Kara-Tur" get brought up a lot, and occasionally some of the missteps in Al-Qadim (although people seem to agree that TSR did much better with it).

I haven't ever heard the same about Calimsham, although I don't think it ever got a full line of products like the others did, so maybe I just missed the discourse.

The main issues for Kara-Tur were the use of local terms, usually Japanese, in general for the entire setting, even when it wasn't appropriate (like using "Samurai" in Chinese-inspired locations), and hewing too close to real-life analogues, down to at times just changing a letter or two in a real-life name ("Tabot" and "Koryo", for example). And, obviously, a massive dose of Orientalism. Those are fixable issues, especially given that there has been a over a century and two planetary catastrophes since the last time there has been anything published for the region. That gives plenty of wiggle room to make changes, while still being able to retain what was salvageable.

Calimshan, being "fantasy Arabia" had many, if not all, of the same issues as Al-Qadim did, with the additional problems of it being created more ad hoc, which tended to bring out the stereotyping.

I guess my point is, Kara Tur isn't too far beyond Calimshan/Al-Qadim issue-wise, and thus reasonably salvageable with some work. Maztica, however, is on a much different problematical tier altogether than the others.

 

[Parmandur]

@GarrettKP quoted from the Game Informer article many pages ago on this thread thread:



That definitely seems to imply that the 10 regions are large areas (Thay, Aglarond, and Rashemen are traditionally grouped together in one region as the "Unapproachable East), and "We divide the Forgotten Realms up into 10 regions" indicates that every location in the setting will be part of one of these regions (otherwise they would say "We feature 10 regions" instead of "We divide"). As argued before, you can easilly divide the setting up into 10 large, coherent regions (of the size of the grouping of Thay, Aglarond, and Rashemen, as mentioned in the quote), while trying to divide it up into just 5 large regions after reserving 5 for the mini-settings would be much more difficult to do without forceably including vastly differeing locations in a each location. Also, with 38 feats, there's more than enough to spread around as regional feats, even potentially having feats for multiple smaller locations, and still have plenty to spare for non-regional feats.

That quote does seem to imply that...but the official copy about the Heroes Guide talks about 10 "Locales", and the Geats we know about related to the regiona include 4 of the detailed Gazateers in the AG (Background Feats for the Dalelands, Icewind Dale, Calmishan, The Moonshae Isles...and the Shadowmasters out of Thesk?). Seems to be more specific.

 

[Demetrios1453]

That quote does seem to imply that...but the official copy about the Heroes Guide talks about 10 "Locales", and the Geats we know about related to the regiona include 4 of the detailed Gazateers in the AG (Background Feats for the Dalelands, Icewind Dale, Calmishan, The Moonshae Isles...and the Shadowmasters out of Thesk?). Seems to be more specific.

Meh, we're arguing over minimal information that can be interpreted multiple ways. Hopefully they'll give us more details soon so we know exactly what to expect here.

 

[GarrettKP]

As a heads up, they revealed Calimshan has been heavily changed. It’s now a magic-tech setting.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Calimshan certainly posed issues - if it didn't, they wouldn't have brought in an outside consultant!

Given the time leap from 3e to 4e, re-doing the execution to something more acceptable wouldn't be much of an issue for Kara-Tur. Maztica, with its overt themes of colonialism, would obviously be much harder to thread the needle.

Isn't Maztica basically what if that Aztecs instead of the Spaniard's won?

I think the subject of human sacrifice will be much harder then the issue of Colonialism.

 

[Parmandur]

As a heads up, they revealed Calimshan has been heavily changed. It’s now a magic-tech setting. View attachment 413283

Not a huge leap, all things considered.