D&D 5E (2024) Next issue of Game Informer will have details on the two upcoming Forgotten Realms books

[Remathilis]

The main issues for Kara-Tur were the use of local terms, usually Japanese, in general for the entire setting, even when it wasn't appropriate (like using "Samurai" in Chinese-inspired locations), and hewing too close to real-life analogues, down to at times just changing a letter or two in a real-life name ("Tabot" and "Koryo", for example). And, obviously, a massive dose of Orientalism. Those are fixable issues, especially given that there has been a over a century and two planetary catastrophes since the last time there has been anything published for the region. That gives plenty of wiggle room to make changes, while still being able to retain what was salvageable.

I think the fact that Kara Tur is generally rather obscure at this point (the last time it got anything more than a passing mention was 30 years ago) and the fact its been a century since it was canonically described, you could do a LOT of revision while keeping the general theme of "Faeruns Asia" in tact. Only the most groggyest of Grognards will care if nations or cities get renamed, reinterpreted, or rectonned. Hell, I'm more interested in "AtLA x D&D on the the other side of Faerun" then I am making it adhere to a decades old box set, and given WotCs MO of redefining settings to fit modern sensibilities (Ravenloft) I don't think they would care either. They could make a whole new Asia setting ground up, call it Kara Tur and I'd buy it.

 

[Parmandur]

On the one hand, there's absolutely nothing special about Kara-Tur. It's a bog standard stand-in East Asia location. The only notable feature I ever saw mentioned was the spelljammer port. So there's very little pressing need to bring it back.

But on the other hand... tradition has weight. The people who know it will value it, and even the people who don't will appreciate being able to learn it. Every time a new superhero movie comes out, my video feeds are flooded with low effort content pointing out every callback and reference in them. So if you want an East Asia flavored setting on offer, it might as well be Kara-Tur. Just don't be surprised if it gets heavily revised in the process.

The main reason to bring back Kara-Tur is for Asian inclusion in the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

They could make a whole new Asia setting ground up, call it Kara Tur and I'd buy it.

How would you feel if 5E Kara-Tur had all of the Asian-coded settings from Radiant Citadel embedded in it? There's four or five of them, as I recall.

 

[Parmandur]

I think the fact that Kara Tur is generally rather obscure at this point (the last time it got anything more than a passing mention was 30 years ago) and the fact its been a century since it was canonically described, you could do a LOT of revision while keeping the general theme of "Faeruns Asia" in tact. Only the most groggyest of Grognards will care if nations or cities get renamed, reinterpreted, or rectonned. Hell, I'm more interested in "AtLA x D&D on the the other side of Faerun" then I am making it adhere to a decades old box set, and given WotCs MO of redefining settings to fit modern sensibilities (Ravenloft) I don't think they would care either. They could make a whole new Asia setting ground up, call it Kara Tur and I'd buy it.

Heck, the one thing of Kara-Tur that is definitely included in these books, the Spirit Dragon, is totally changed based on the art we've seen.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I think the fact that Kara Tur is generally rather obscure at this point (the last time it got anything more than a passing mention was 30 years ago) and the fact its been a century since it was canonically described, you could do a LOT of revision while keeping the general theme of "Faeruns Asia" in tact. Only the most groggyest of Grognards will care if nations or cities get renamed, reinterpreted, or rectonned. Hell, I'm more interested in "AtLA x D&D on the the other side of Faerun" then I am making it adhere to a decades old box set, and given WotCs MO of redefining settings to fit modern sensibilities (Ravenloft) I don't think they would care either. They could make a whole new Asia setting ground up, call it Kara Tur and I'd buy it.

Kara-Tur was mentioned in the Humans section of the 2014 PHB, specifically being east of Faerûn. The Shou ethnicity was stated to be the most powerful and numerous ethnicity from the region. Granted, that's pretty much all we have in 5e so far, athough in one of the adventures in Candlekeep Mysteries, there's a group who are mentioned as being Shou, but they very pointedly don't state the land they come from in the adventure (they just say "distant homeland to the east of Faerûn")

So it's not a reach to say that Kara-Tur is still there. The Shou being the largest ethnicity implies the continued existence of Shou Lung as a state or at least a concept. Beyond that, it's probably fair game to re-organize and reinterpret, although keeping the two "Japan" states (Wa and Kozakura) and the two "China" states (Shou Lung and T'u Lung - although potentially re-transliterated using Pinyin instead of Wade-Giles, so Shou Long and Tu Long), while updating and reinterpreting them, would probably be a useful base to keep.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

No, the fantasy Aztecs quite decisively lost to the fantasy Spanish (from Amn). And a good number of them were magically turned into orcs and ogres (and driders - this is in part due to the machinations of Lolth, via an albino drow everyone thought was just a regular elf). In the end, the fantasy Spanish still occupy a good amount of the continent, while the main settlements of the fantasy Aztecs are monster-infested ruins. The remaining fantasy Aztec refugees get to live under fantasy Spanish rule. But, hey, the leader of the fantasy Spanish has learned to understand the fantasy Aztec culture a bit more by the end from his La Malinche-coded girlfriend, so that's good, right?

Damn, I guess I should have payed more attention to Maztica.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

The main reason to bring back Kara-Tur is for Asian inclusion in the Forgotten Realms.

Well that making the CEO of Hasbro happy, let's be honest that is primary reason to bring it back, when the boss says its his favourite setting you don't say no.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

The main reason to bring back Kara-Tur is for Asian inclusion in the Forgotten Realms.

Well that making the CEO of Hasbro happy, let's be honest that is primary reason to bring it back, when the boss says its his fa

Kara-Tur was mentioned in the Humans section of the 2014 PHB, specifically being east of Faerûn. The Shou ethnicity was stated to be the most powerful and numerous ethnicity from the region. Granted, that's pretty much all we have in 5e so far, athough in one of the adventures in Candlekeep Mysteries, there's a group who are mentioned as being Shou, but they very pointedly don't state the land they come from in the adventure (they just say "distant homeland to the east of Faerûn")

So it's not a reach to say that Kara-Tur is still there. The Shou being the largest ethnicity implies the continued existence of Shou Lung as a state or at least a concept. Beyond that, it's probably fair game to re-organize and reinterpret, although keeping the two "Japan" states (Wa and Kozakura) and the two "China" states (Shou Lung and T'u Lung - although potentially re-transliterated using Pinyin instead of Wade-Giles, so Shou Long and Tu Long), while updating and reinterpreting them, would probably be a useful base to keep.

Honestly you could get away with Shou Lung taking back Tu Lung, it used to be part of Shou Lung. If either of them gets a truelt radical make over it will ge Tu Lung I think.

 

[Remathilis]

Kara-Tur was mentioned in the Humans section of the 2014 PHB, specifically being east of Faerûn. The Shou ethnicity was stated to be the most powerful and numerous ethnicity from the region. Granted, that's pretty much all we have in 5e so far, athough in one of the adventures in Candlekeep Mysteries, there's a group who are mentioned as being Shou, but they very pointedly don't state the land they come from in the adventure (they just say "distant homeland to the east of Faerûn")

So it's not a reach to say that Kara-Tur is still there. The Shou being the largest ethnicity implies the continued existence of Shou Lung as a state or at least a concept. Beyond that, it's probably fair game to re-organize and reinterpret, although keeping the two "Japan" states (Wa and Kozakura) and the two "China" states (Shou Lung and T'u Lung - although potentially re-transliterated using Pinyin instead of Wade-Giles, so Shou Long and Tu Long), while updating and reinterpreting them, would probably be a useful base to keep.

I think you misinterpreted what I was talking about. I want A Kara Tur to exist. I do not care if it is THE Kara Tur that was in the 2e box set. If names are bad translations and pig language, rename them. If there are bad stereotypes, remove them. If it makes sense to have two Japans, keep them or remove one if doesn't. I also don't care if samurai and shou lin monks fight together; D&D is nothing if not eclectic. I'm just saying I want something filling that space in the game and I don't care how much that conflicts with a 30 year old box set. Do what needs to be done to have a usable Kara Tur.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Honestly you could get away with Shou Lung taking back Tu Lung, it used to be part of Shou Lung. If either of them gets a truelt radical make over it will ge Tu Lung I think.

I was thinking along the same lines. The Shou Lung - T'u Lung divide mirrors times in China's history when there was a two-state north - south divide, but there are plenty of other possibilities that could have arisen in the last century. Shou Lung might have conquered T'u Lung as you said, leaving just a single, unified "China". Or maybe another part of Shou Lung broke away, and we now have a Three Kingdoms situation. Or maybe everything fell apart and we have a version of the Warring Kingdoms era. There are all sorts of possibilities they could play with.