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NHL Strike

AIM-54

First Post
Thornir Alekeg said:
The fans: Its expensive, but try and make a game or two (when they start playing again, that is). And when you are there - whoop it up! I know it isn't always easy and certain new arenas make it tough (Fleet Center - it was so much louder in the Garden), but make the game sound like it is exciting for fans watching on TV. Try and recruit new fans to the sport. Let your local station carrying the games know you are watching - let sponsors know you saw their ads during the game - help the game generate revenue. And if you can, don't forget those poor guys at the local restaurants and bars near the arenas who won't have people showing up before games.

And if you're in Boston and need the fix, there are four top quality division-I hockey teams all T accessible. If you're looking for atmosphere, I suggest checking out Conte Forum or Walter Brown Arena (or next Spring Harry Agganis Arena) for a BC-BU game. Next February there's a little annual tournament, pitting those four Boston teams together...if you want to see the FleetCenter rocking, a tight Beanpot Championship game is just the ticket.
For the cost conscious, the tickets are pretty decently priced too, especially compared to professional prices.

Best of all, you can see a bunch of kids playing their hearts out for the love of the game and a shot at a dream (yes, the NHL, it's still the dream for these kids). The no red-line rule is also pretty good. :p

I'm just saying it's an option, see? :)
 

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Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
AIM-54 said:
And if you're in Boston and need the fix, there are four top quality division-I hockey teams all T accessible. If you're looking for atmosphere, I suggest checking out Conte Forum or Walter Brown Arena (or next Spring Harry Agganis Arena) for a BC-BU game. Next February there's a little annual tournament, pitting those four Boston teams together...if you want to see the FleetCenter rocking, a tight Beanpot Championship game is just the ticket.
For the cost conscious, the tickets are pretty decently priced too, especially compared to professional prices.

Best of all, you can see a bunch of kids playing their hearts out for the love of the game and a shot at a dream (yes, the NHL, it's still the dream for these kids). The no red-line rule is also pretty good. :p

I'm just saying it's an option, see? :)

It is a very good option. I've been to Conte for a couple of BC-U Maine and BC-UNH games and it was great. Never made the Beanpot, but maybe I will try to snag tix (my next door neighbor always seems to have connections). I'm just a die-hard Bruins fan, so seeing the black and gold on the ice in Providence would be nice as well.

Oh, and one good thing to the lockout - maybe we'll get a shortened season - say 40 games. The Bruins recently seem start the season great and then fall apart. Maybe in a short season they won't get to the collapse and will just win. :D
 

AIM-54

First Post
Thornir Alekeg said:
Oh, and one good thing to the lockout - maybe we'll get a shortened season - say 40 games. The Bruins recently seem start the season great and then fall apart. Maybe in a short season they won't get to the collapse and will just win. :D

I have more than a few friends that look forward to that day! :)

And for those who have yet to be convinced, allow me to attach this link:

NHL Fan's Guide to College Hockey

[/end evangelism] ;)
 

Teflon Billy

Explorer
Thornir Alekeg said:
...They do need to find a way to drop ticket prices and put more butts into seats. Nothing looks worse on TV than a game where most of the seats near ice level (the $$$ seats) are empty.

Oh man, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but do you seriosly think a victory for the owners is going to have a positive effect (for fans) on Ticket prices?

The owners want ticket prices right where they are.

The players: Just as greedy as the owners are - maybe even more. Quit whining and play! Your choices are: play hockey in North America for less money, hold your ground and not play at all - and not get any money, or go play somewhere else for less money.

...

I am almost literally speechless. Not wanting to work a job--one in which you fairly negotiated your wage to the satisfaction of both parties--for half pay is greedy.

I'm wondering if during the "may I have more soup?" scene in Oliver Twist if your thoughts went along the line of "Get back to work Oliver, you've had some soup"

The trap has done more to kill hockey than just about anything. I don't think you can make an enforcable rule against it (like illegal defense in the NBA), so maybe the game should change to be 60 minutes of four-on-four hockey (added bonus of reducing payrolls as well!).

Why 60 minutes? I think they should keep 5 on five but move to international-sized ice and possibly eliminate the redline

The playoffs: The NHL needs to shorten the season some so they are not competing with the NBA for playoff airtime.

Preach it brother! I don't care one whit about the NBA, but an 82-game season is just too frickin long.

tion the number of teams making the playoffs needs to be cut back - make the regular season meaningful.

Amen!

the Fans: Its expensive, but try and make a game or two (when they start playing again, that is). And when you are there - whoop it up! I know it isn't always easy and certain new arenas make it tough (Fleet Center - it was so much louder in the Garden), but make the game sound like it is exciting for fans watching on TV.

Back when the Canucks sucked, they used to exhort the dead-silent fans to "Get into it" and "whoop it up".

When they rebuilt the team around the being exciting concept, fans cheered.

I think this goes back to your earlier "the trap has ruined the game" comment:).

Nobody cares about a win if you get it by being a stultifyingly boring team playing a style everyone hates.

Except for the residents of New Jersey. They can't get enough of watching paint dry it would seem
 

GlassJaw

Hero
The main problem is the story state the NHL game is. Until that is fixed, none of financial problems will be.

The funny thing is (or not so funny) is that the owners had numerous chances to fix the ills of the game itself. Instead, they chose to expand and expand, completely watering down the game. Each time they did, the league got some quick cash but in the end, the game suffered.

There also has been a bunch of new arenas built. The owners could have stepped up and decided from here on out, all ice rink will be larger. But that means less seats which means less revenue. Can't do that.

Bottom line: there needs to be less teams. The NHL does not cater to its superstars. The game is slow. It rewards less-skilled players and goons. The owners think the fans want fighting and penalties. The diehards might but they are in the minority. The NHL is going to attract new fans with the product they continusouly put on the ice.

You're talking about a situation where a bunch of people get payed obscene amounts of money to play a game (or to manage the stuff around playing the game) and then bicker over exactly how obscene the amount should be.

So what? You can say that about a ton of things. It's the American way. Honestly, I don't really have a problem with it. How is playing a professional sport any different than working for a company in which you get paid a ridiculous salary? No one complains about brokers on Wall Street. They aren't making a positive contribution to the betterment of society. But why do they get paid so much? Because they're making someone else a ton of cash.

To put it in perspective, most owners (especially baseball) make enough money to put the entire salary of their team with revenue from TV contracts ONLY. Everything else (ticket sales, merchandise, etc) is complete PROFIT. Sports are big business, never forget that.
 

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
Teflon Billy said:
Oh man, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but do you seriosly think a victory for the owners is going to have a positive effect (for fans) on Ticket prices?

The owners want ticket prices right where they are.

Oh, I do not doubt for a second that nothing will change there, that's just wishful thinking
...
I am almost literally speechless. Not wanting to work a job--one in which you fairly negotiated your wage to the satisfaction of both parties--for half pay is greedy.

I'm wondering if during the "may I have more soup?" scene in Oliver Twist if your thoughts went along the line of "Get back to work Oliver, you've had some soup"

Well, I didn't see read Oliver Twist, but I think little Oliver was being exploited. I don't think that is quite the case for NHL players - or if it is I'm doing outright slave labor ;)

Why 60 minutes? I think they should keep 5 on five but move to international-sized ice and possibly eliminate the redline

Anything to end the trap!

I think it is very interesting that a team named the Devils are the bane of exciting hockey...I see it as proof that hockey is in fact a sport from heaven :p
 

devilbat

First Post
I am almost literally speechless. Not wanting to work a job--one in which you fairly negotiated your wage to the satisfaction of both parties--for half pay is greedy.

Funny, you can say the same for the players.

When I negotiate a contract for my services, I don't have the right to go to my employer and say "You know boss, Jason, John and Dave get paid the same as I do, but I'm three times more productive then they are, so I'm going to go home and wait for you to triple my salary. Even though I was happy when I negotiated my wage, now I want more. Oh and by the way, I want you to open up your books, and show me how much money the company is making."
 

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
And here are my thoughts, as a non-hockey fan.
Thornir Alekeg said:
The owners

The players: Just as greedy as the owners are - maybe even more.
Again, remember, this is a non-hockey fan (though I am a fan of other sports - basketball, aussie rules football, somewhat soccer, somewhat US football)...

The players, IMO, are more greedy than the owners because they do not want a salary cap. They want artificially high salaries and, in fact, it is their huge salaries that are killing the game. Yes, the owners are stupid to pay the players the money they are paying them, BUT a little enlightened self-interest goes a long way here... it's not like these guys are making starvation wages... but in demanding a bigger paycheck every day, they're killing the golden goose... hockey, more than any other sport, relies on "fans in the seats" for its revenue (especially in light of their recent TV deal). The higher player salaries go, the higher ticket prices must go... and with any supply-demand curve, the higher the prices go, the lower demand goes... once the ticket prices hit the point where the demand drops to less than the capacity of the arena, each "upping" of the price will drop the total seats sold (I think it's already past that point, myself), meaning the harder you try to squeeze, the less results you get... the players don't understand - or, more precisely, don't want to admit to themselves - that at this point, raising salaries... and with them the prices of seats... will lead to LESS overall revenue now, not more, because you're losing fans exponentially versus ticket price increases.

This is not only a problem for hockey, mind you... it is endemic to the NBA and NFL (MLB, for what it's worth, still has a lot of very reasonably priced... by which I mean under $10... tickets available for most games, so they're not to that point yet).

The owners, IMO are more stupid than the players because they "need" a salary cap... but as has been mentioned before, if they get together and agree to practice fiscal responsibility, that's called "collusion" and gets them into big trouble with the government.

The owners have, I think, realized that their revenue streams are, for the most part, maxxed out... they CAN'T get any more money in. I think the TV deal - which basically is "you broadcast our games for free" - was a cold dose of reality for the owners. Hockey fans probably don't want to hear it, but the cold, hard truth is that right now, there's simply no interest in hockey among the population at large. (More on this shortly.)

As a business owner, when I realize that my revenue stream has peaked, I then look at expenses... and there's one expense that continues to grow unabated - player salaries. At some point, I have to decide to cut that expense or go under. A little simple math tells me that if the average price of a seat at an NHL arena is $100 (on the high side, perhaps), and there are 20,000 seats at an arena, and 40 home games per year, I'm going to pull down $100 x 20,000 x 40 = $80 million in revenue each year.

Player salaries are averaging $1.83 million. With a 25-man roster, that's what, $45 million? So I'm left, as an owner, with $35 million, right? That's a pretty good income stream?

Not exactly.

Some of that has to go to paying rent, electricity, property tax, buying uniforms, sticks, zambonis, and paying all the "common folk" that work at the arena... the ushers, the guys in the concession stands, and so forth. There's also travel expenses to cart my team from one city to another... and first-class hotel accomodations... that's not cheap, either. AND the players want a "per diem" over and above their salary when on the road. Oh, AND the NHL will be taking their cut as well for operating expenses, providing officials, etc. Anyone really think that this doesn't account for close to another $30 million or so?

And the players say, "we need MORE money." The players are in denial. There's simply no money left. As a business owner, I am not going to be pleased if I'm already operating on razor-thin margins and I'm being told that I need to pony up more money because I'm a cheapskate.

I have more sympathy for the owners than for the players because the owners are "victims" (if you can call it that) of being in competition with other owners, thus driving up salary expenses through the roof - though they've realized it can't keep happening, they can't formally cap these expenses without negotiating it into the CBA. In other words, they're legally prohibited from trying to solve the problem any other way. The players, though, I have no sympathy at all for because they're simply trying to ignore/deny reality. If there's $50 on the table, you simply can't slice it into 100 pieces of $1 each, which is what the players seem to be trying to do.

The game: The trap has done more to kill hockey than just about anything. I don't think you can make an enforcable rule against it (like illegal defense in the NBA), so maybe the game should change to be 60 minutes of four-on-four hockey (added bonus of reducing payrolls as well!).
The solution is the same solution I offer for soccer if it ever wants to be accepted into the mainstream of US sporting culture. Simply put, you must remove all "off-sides" rules (in hockey, that includes both "off-sides" and the "two-line pass" as well as "icing") that occur while the ball/puck/etc. is "live." You do that, and the neutral zone trap goes away, simply because there's no longer a neutral zone. It would also increase scoring, which the US sporting public prefers (this is something the NBA is still struggling with, though I contend it's because they refuse to call the game the way it is meant to be called - contact == foul, not "advantage from contact" == foul, and even then maybe not - if the NBA tightened up its calls significantly, you'd see a huge increase in scoring... the NFL is trying to increase the scoring by enforcing the "no contact after 5 yards" rule... the NFL gets it). The NFL does not need to eliminate the off-side, because (a) it only applies when the ball is "dead" - once the ball is put into play, if you did not start "off-sides" you cannot later become "off-sides" ("ineligible downfield receivers" rule should probably go, though, by this logic) and (b) football is a special case because of the nature of the game... the object of the game is to simply advance the ball horizontally along the field, as opposed to trying to get the ball into a specific, small target (soccer, basketball, hockey), and therefore "splitting the field in half" horizontally along the plane of the ball itself makes some intuitive sense.

The playoffs: The NHL needs to shorten the season some so they are not competing with the NBA for playoff airtime. In addition the number of teams making the playoffs needs to be cut back - make the regular season meaningful.
Here, I don't think so. The NHL season is their primary source of revenue... cut from 80 to 60 games and you cut your revenue by 25% also. The NHL actually has it right in the playoffs and the NBA doesn't - games are played pretty much as back-to-back as travel will allow. The NHL is pretty much through its playoff period before the NBA has gotten out of the first round. I don't see much need for change here.

The fans: Its expensive, but try and make a game or two (when they start playing again, that is). And when you are there - whoop it up! I know it isn't always easy and certain new arenas make it tough (Fleet Center - it was so much louder in the Garden), but make the game sound like it is exciting for fans watching on TV. Try and recruit new fans to the sport. Let your local station carrying the games know you are watching - let sponsors know you saw their ads during the game - help the game generate revenue. And if you can, don't forget those poor guys at the local restaurants and bars near the arenas who won't have people showing up before games.
*shrugs* There's only so much a devoted fan can do... I think the product must improve - notably by implementing rules changes to increase offense and emphasizing skill over thuggery - before "recruiting" will do more than convince someone to watch a game with you and then go back to their "regular" sporting lifestyle.

My 2 cents.

-The Sigil
 
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Teflon Billy

Explorer
Thornir Alekeg said:
...I think it is very interesting that a team named the Devils are the bane of exciting hockey...I see it as proof that hockey is in fact a sport from heaven :p

Agreed:)

that said, the very moment New Jersey trades for Miroslav Satan, I am buying that jersey:)
 

Teflon Billy

Explorer
devilbat said:
Funny, you can say the same for the players.

When I negotiate a contract for my services, I don't have the right to go to my employer and say "You know boss, Jason, John and Dave get paid the same as I do, but I'm three times more productive then they are, so I'm going to go home and wait for you to triple my salary. Even though I was happy when I negotiated my wage, now I want more. Oh and by the way, I want you to open up your books, and show me how much money the company is making."

For the record, I think players holding out is crappy policy as well. Are you saying that they should both have the ability to ignore contracts?

I'm saying neither should.
 

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