Nifft's Multi-Classing Revision

[Nifft]

4.05e Multiclassing

This is a work in progress, but please don't hesitate to point out the amazingly stupid mistakes I've surely made.

I'm aiming at a full replacement for the frequently useless multi-classing found in the PHB. So far I've done just the feats. Eventually there will be Paragon Paths for specific combinations.

My goal is to leverage the "action economy" to balance out role infringement, yet allow significant role infringement for the price of a few feats, while retaining 4e's general (low) feat power level.

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Replacement Feats
Note that you can only have ONE feat with the [Multiclass] keyword. You cannot take a multi-class feat into your original class.


Adaptive Dilettante [Half-Elf] -- Heroic
Benefit: You may change the ability used to determine the attack bonus of your cross-class Dilettante power. If the power's attack roll is normally based on a mental ability score, choose any other mental ability score. If the power's attack roll is normally based on a physical ability score, choose any other physical ability score. Damage and any other effects the power may have are determined normally.
Special: If you have the Dabbler feat (see below), and the power it grants shares a Power Source with your Dilettante-granted power, you may apply the benefit of this feat to both powers.

Dabbler -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Training in a specific skill (see below)
Benefit: Based the skills you are trained in, you may select an at-will power from another class. You can use this power once per encounter. This feat does not entitle you to use the weapons or implements of that class; see the [Multiclass] feats below if you wish to gain implement access.

• Athletics: Fighter
• Arcana: Warlock, Wizard
• Diplomacy: Warlord
• Perception: Ranger
• Religion: Cleric, Paladin
• Stealth: Rogue

Power Swap (Encounter) -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Any [Multiclass] feat, 4th level
Benefit: You may trade one of your Encounter powers for an Encounter power of your other class. You may retrain this power as usual. However, your highest level Encounter power must always come from your original class.


Power Swap (Daily) -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Any [Multiclass] feat, 6th level
Benefit: You may trade one of your Daily attack powers for a Daily attack power of your other class. You may retrain this power as usual. However, your highest level Daily attack power must always come from your original class.
Special: If Wizard is your second class, choose two Daily attack powers instead of one, and scribe them into your spellbook.


Power Swap (Utility) -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Any [Multiclass] feat, 6th level
Benefit: You may trade one of your Encounter powers for a Utility power of your other class. You may retrain this power as usual. However, your highest level Utility power must always come from your original class.
Special: If Wizard is your second class, choose two Utility powers instead of one, and scribe them into your spellbook.

Power Swap II (Utility) -- Paragon
Prerequisites: Any [Multiclass] feat, Power Swap (Utility), 16th level
Benefit: You may trade one additional Utility power for another Utility power of your other class. You may retrain either power as usual. However, your highest level Utility power must always come from your original class.

Power Swap III (Utility) -- Epic
Prerequisites: Any [Multiclass] feat, Power Swap (Utility), Power Swap II (Utility), 26th level
Benefit: You may trade one additional Utility power for another Utility power of your other class, for a total of three. You may retrain any of these powers as usual. However, your highest level Utility power must always come from your original class.


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Arcane Apprentice [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Int 13, Ritual Caster, training in Arcana
Benefit: You immediately learn two Rituals (of your level or lower) for free. You gain an additional free ritual at levels 5, 11, 21, and 25; if you've already attained 5th or higher level, you gain bonus rituals for the levels you've surpassed immediately.
Choose two of the four Cantrips known to Wizards. You may use these Cantrips at-will, just as a Wizard would.
You may use Wands, Staves and Orbs as Implements when using powers from the Wizard class (though you do not gain Arcane Implement Mastery).
Additionally, you are considered to be a Wizard for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Arcane Implement Focus -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Arcane Apprentice, one of Dex, Con or Wis 15
Benefit: You gain a limited form of the Wizard's Arcane Implement Mastery class feature. Choose one of the following for which you qualify:

• Dex 15: Wand Mastery. Once per encounter, you may add +2 to the attack roll of a Wizard spell made using a wand.
• Wiz 15: Orb Mastery. Once per encounter, you can impose a -2 penalty on one creature's saving throws against the effect of one Wizard spell you cast using an orb.
• Con 15: Staff Mastery. You gain a +1 bonus to AC while wielding a staff.

You are considered to have the Arcane Implement Mastery class feature.
You learn one additional Cantrip, which you may use at-will, just as a Wizard would.


Arcane Student -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Arcane Apprentice
Benefit: Choose two Wizard at-will powers. After an extended rest, you may choose to prepare one of these spells in place of one of your class Encounter powers. You may use the prepared spell twice per encounter until your next extended rest.
You learn one additional Cantrip, which you may use at-will, just as a Wizard would.
Special: At Paragon tier, you may instead use your prepared spell thrice per encounter. At Epic tier, you may instead use your prepared spell four times per encounter.


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Champion's Squire [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Cha 13, proficiency with any shield, proficiency with any military melee weapon, training in Religion and Diplomacy
Benefit: You may use the Paladin's class feature Divine Challenge as a Move action. You may use Holy Symbols and Holy Avengers as Implements when using powers from the Paladin class.
You may Channel Divinity once per day, but this does nothing useful without additional feats.
Additionally, you are considered to be a Paladin for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Champion's Mercy -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Wis 13, Champion's Squire, training in Heal
Benefit: You may use the Paladin's class ability Lay on Hands as a Standard action. Just like a Paladin, you may use it a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, but only once per round.

Champion's Initiate -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Str 13, Champion's Squire
Benefit: Once per day, you may Channel Divinity to use either Divine Mettle or Divine Strength.

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Faithful Acolyte [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Wis 13, Ritual Caster, training in Religion and Heal
Benefit: You may use the Cleric's class feature Healing Word once per encounter as a Standard action.
You may use Holy Symbols as Implements when using powers from the Cleric class.
You may Channel Divinity once per day, but this does nothing useful without additional feats.
Additionally, you are considered to be a Cleric for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.


Faithful Healer -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Wis 15, Faithful Acolyte
Benefit: You may use Healing Word twice per encounter instead of once per encounter.


Faithful Initiate -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Faithful Acolyte
Benefit: Once per day, you may Channel Divinity to use either Divine Fortune or Turn Undead.

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Fighting Man's Challenge [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Str 13, proficiency with any heavy armor and any shield, proficiency with any military melee weapon, training in Athletics
Benefit: When you make a melee attack against a foe, you may immediately spend a Move action mark your opponent. This mark lasts until the end of your next turn. Whenever an adjacent enemy you have marked shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a basic melee attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.
Additionally, you are considered to be a Fighter for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Fighting Man's Flexibility -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Fighting Man's Challenge
Benefit: You can mark opponents with any attack, not just melee attacks.

Fighting Man's Persistence -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Fighting Man's Challenge
Benefit: When you make a melee attack against a foe whom you've already marked, you may renew your mark as a Minor action (instead of a Move action).

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Pact Apprentice [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Con 13, Cha 13, Ritual Casting, training in Arcana and either Bluff, Intimidate or Insight
Benefit: Choose a Pact (fey, star, or infernal), though this feat does not grant any benefits based on this choice. You may use Wands, Rods and Pact Blades as implements with your Warlock powers.
You may use the Warlock's class feature Warlock's Curse as a Standard action. Once per round when you damage a foe you've cursed, add +1d6 to your damage roll. This damage may be improved with feats, but unlike the Warlock's extra damage, it does not increase automatically with level.
Additionally, you are considered to be a Warlock of your chosen Pact for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Pact Initiate -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Pact Apprentice
Benefit: You have learned the secret of the Warlock's Eldritch Blast. After you have completed an extended rest, you may elect to replace one of your Encounter attack powers with the ability to use Eldritch Blast twice each encounter.
When you take this feat, choose which of Charisma or Constitution will be used to attack with your Eldritch Blast.

Pact Investiture -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Pact Apprentice
Benefit: You gain power from those who die under your Warlock's curse. The specific benefit depends on which Pact you have chosen.

• Fey: You gain a +1 bonus to speed on your next turn.
• Infernal: You gain temporary hit points equal to one-half your character level.
• Star: You gain a +1 bonus on one skill check or saving throw made before the end of your next turn.

These bonuses are not cumulative.

Pact Stalker -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Pact Apprentice
Benefit: When you damage a foe you've cursed, your foe takes an extra +2d6 damage instead of +1d6.

Pact Striker -- Epic
Prerequisite: Pact Apprentice, Pact Stalker
Benefit: When you damage a foe you've cursed, your foe takes an extra +3d6 damage instead of +2d6.


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Shadow Sneak [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Defensive Mobility, training in Stealth and Thievery
Benefit: When you hit a foe against whom you have Combat Advantage with a light blade, crossbow or sling, you may immediately spend a Minor action to deal an additional +1d6 Sneak Attack damage. This damage may be improved with feats, but unlike the Rogue's extra damage, it does not increase automatically with level.
Additionally, you are considered to be a Rogue for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Shadow Brute -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Str 15, Shadow Sneak
Benefit: When you make a Sneak Attack, you deal an extra +2 points of damage.
Additionally, you are considered to have the Brutal Scoundrel class feature.
Special: You may not have this feat and Shadow Dodger at the same time.


Shadow Dodger -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Cha 15, Shadow Sneak
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to your AC against opportunity attacks.
Additionally, you are considered to have the Artful Dodger class feature.
Special: You may not have this feat and Shadow Brute at the same time.


Shadow Stalker -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Shadow Sneak
Benefit: Your Sneak Attack damage increases to +2d6.

Shadow Striker -- Epic
Prerequisite: Shadow Sneak, Shadow Stalker
Benefit: Your Sneak Attack damage increases to +3d6.


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Tactics as Art [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Int 13, Cha 13, proficiency with one military melee weapon, training in Athletics and either Diplomacy or History
Benefit: You may use the Warlord's class feature Inspiring Word once per encounter as a Standard action.
Additionally, you are considered to be a Warlord for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Tactics of Initiative -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Tactics as Art, training in Perception
Benefit: You and each ally within 10 squares who can see and hear you gain a +1 power bonus to initiative.

Tactics of Inspiration -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Cha 15, Tactics as Art
Benefit: When an ally you can see spends an action point to take an extra action, the ally also regains 2 hit points.
Additionally, you are considered to have the Inspiring Presence class feature for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.
Special: You may not have this feat and Tactics of Presence at the same time.


Tactics of Presence -- Heroic
Prerequisite: Int 15, Tactics as Art
Benefit: When an ally you can see spends an action point to make an extra attack, the ally gains a +2 bonus to the attack.
Additionally, you are considered to have the Tactical Presence class feature for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.
Special: You may not have this feat and Tactics of Inspiration at the same time.


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Wild Archer [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Defensive Mobility, Bow proficiency, training in Perception
Benefit: You may use the Ranger's class feature Hunter's Quarry as a Standard action. You deal +1d6 damage to your chosen Quarry. This damage may be improved with feats, but unlike the Ranger's extra damage, it does not increase automatically with level.
Additionally, you are considered to be an Archery Path Ranger for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Wild Brawler [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Str 13, Toughness, proficiency with one one-handed military melee weapon, training in Perception
Benefit: You may use the Ranger's class feature Hunter's Quarry as a Standard action. You deal +1d6 damage to your chosen Quarry. This damage may be improved with feats, but unlike the Ranger's extra damage, it does not increase automatically with level.
You may wield any one-handed weapon with which you have proficiency in your off hand without penalty.
Additionally, you are considered to be a TWF Path Ranger for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Wild Stalker -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Wild Archer or Wild Brawler
Benefit: The extra damage you deal to your designated Quarry increases to +2d6.

Wild Striker -- Epic
Prerequisite: Wild Archer or Wild Brawler, Wild Stalker
Benefit: The extra damage you deal to your designated Quarry increases to +3d6.

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Paragon Paths

Generic Multi-Class Path
"I have more talents than you think."
Prerequisite: any [Multiclass] feat

Benefits:

• Path Synergy (11th level): If you use two powers from two different classes in the same round, you gain a +2 bonus on all attacks made with the second power.
• Cross-Training (11th level): You may choose at-will powers from both of your classes when you retrain; however, the number of at-will powers from your original class must always equal or exceed the number of powers known from your multiclass.
• Expanded Training (16th level): You learn an additional at-will power, for a total of three known (or four if you are human). As before, the number of at-will powers from your original class must always equal or exceed the number of powers known from your second class, but from now on at least one of your at-will powers must come from your second class.

Powers:

• Encounter Attack 11: You gain an Encounter power of up to 7th level from either of your classes. At 21st level, you are permitted retrain this power for an Encounter power of up to 17th level.
• Utility 12: You gain a Utility power of up to 10th level from either of your classes. At 21st level, you are permitted retrain this power for a Utility power of up to 16th level.
• Daily Attack 20: You gain a Daily power of up to 19th level from either of your classes.

Arcane Archer
Prerequisite: Martial and Arcane power sources, Bow proficiency, training in Arcana and Perception

Benefits:

• Archer's Bond (11th level): Choose an arcane implement that you can use. You can use a bow as if it were that type of arcane implement when casting your spells. If you have the Arcane Implement Mastery class feature and choose an appropriate implement to emulate, that works too.
• Defensive Insight (11th level): Add both your Intelligence and your Dexterity to your AC against opportunity attacks.
• True Strike (16th level): You may spend an Action Point to reroll a ranged attack made using your bow instead of gaining an extra action. You gain a +6 power bonus on the reroll.

Powers:

• Energized Shot (Attack 11)
  Encounter • Arcane, Weapon; Fire, Necrotic or Thunder
  Standard • Ranged weapon
  Target: One critter
  Attack: Dex vs. AC
  Hit: 2[w]+Int, and one of the following effects:
  • Fire: All damage is Fire damage, and the target suffers ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
  • Necrotic: The target suffers +5 points of Necrotic damage, and is Weakened until the end of your next turn.
  • Thunder: All damage is Thunder damage, and you may Push the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier.
• Imbued Shot (Utility 12)
  Encounter • Arcane
  Minor • Personal
  Effect: The next Ranged Arcane power you use before the end of your next turn gains the Weapon keyword, loses the Implement keyword, and uses your bow range instead of its normal range.
• Arrow Storm (Attack 20)
  Daily • Arcane, Weapon; Fire, Psychic or Lightning
  Standard • Area 4 burst in range 20
  Targets: Each enemy in burst
  Attack: Dex vs. AC
  Hit: 2[w]+Int, and one of the following effects:
  • Psychic: Slide the target up to 2 squares.
  • Fire: The target suffers ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
  • Lightning: The target is Immobilized until the end of your next turn.
  Effect: The area within the burst becomes difficult terrain.

Officer -- Path of the Warlord
Prerequisite: Tactics as Art

Benefits:

• Art of Inspiration (11th level): You may use the Warlord class feature Inspiring Word once per encounter as a Move action instead of once per encounter as a Standard action.
• Art of Action (11th level): You are considered your own ally for the purpose of feats which grant allies a benefit when they spend an action point. Additionally, when you spend an action point, you gain a +2 bonus to all your defenses until the end of your next turn.
• Art of Training (16th level): You learn an additional 1st level Warlord At-Will power, either Commander's Strike or Furious Smash. Additionally, you may use Inspiring Word twice per encounter as a Move action, but only once per round.

Powers:

• Provoked Opening (Attack 11)
  Encounter • Martial, Weapon
  Immediate Reaction • Melee attack
  Trigger: You hit an enemy within range with a Melee or Close attack.
  Target: One enemy you just hit.
  Attack: Str vs. Reflex
  Hit: 1[w]+Str, and the target grants combat advantage to your allies until the start of your next turn.
  
• Covering Maneuver (Utility 12)
  Daily • Martial
  Move • Personal
  Effect: You can shift up to your speed. Any ally whose space you shift through can immediately shift one square.
  
• Perfect Art (Attack 20)
  Daily • Martial, Weapon
  Standard • Melee attack
  Targets: One critter
  Attack: Str vs. AC
  Hit: 3[w]+Str, and one ally who can see you chooses one of these benefits:
  • Immediate move up to her speed;
  • Regain 5 hit points;
  • +2 bonus to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

Fighting Man -- Path of the Fighter
Prerequisite: Fighting Man's Challenge

Benefits:

• True Fighting Man (11th level): You may Mark a foe as a Minor action instead of as a Move action. If you have the feat Fighting Man's Persistence, you may re-Mark a foe already subject to your Mark as a free action.
• Melee Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to make an extra attack, you gain a +4 bonus to melee attacks until the end of your turn.
• Fighting Man's Training (16th level): You learn an additional 1st level Fighter At-Will power of your choice.

Powers:

• Defender's Counter (Attack 11)
  Encounter • Martial, Weapon
  Immediate Interrupt • Melee attack
  Trigger: An enemy you've Marked attempts to shift.
  Target: One enemy
  Attack: Str +2 vs. AC
  Hit: 1[w]+Str, and the target is Immobilized until the start of your next turn.
  
• Defender's Resurgence (Utility 12)
  Daily • Martial
  Minor • Personal
  Effect: You can spend a Healing Surge. Add your Strength bonus to the hit points cured.
  
• Fighter's Strike (Attack 20)
  Daily • Martial, Weapon
  Standard • Melee attack
  Targets: One critter
  Attack: Str vs. AC
  Hit: 3[w]+Str, and inflict one of the following:
  • Target is Slowed until the end of your next turn;
  • Slide the target 2 squares;
  • Target is knocked prone.

Healer -- Path of the Walking Band-Aid
Prerequisite: Faithful Acolyte

Benefits:

• Healer's Training (11th level): You may use Healing Word as a Move action instead of as a Standard action.
• Healing Action (11th level): When you spend an action point for any purpose, you may also use Healing Word as a free action. You may use Healing Word in this way even if you have no remaining uses for this encounter, but not if you've already used it this turn.
• Healing Lore (16th level): Your Healing powers, including Healing Word, cure an extra +4 hit points. Ongoing Healing powers (such as those that grant regeneration) only cure extra damage on the first round they are active.

Powers:

• Healing Light (Attack 11)
  Encounter • Divine, Healing, Implement, Radiant
  Standard • Close burst 3
  Target: All enemies within burst
  Attack: Wis vs. Will
  Hit: 2d6+Wis radiant damage.
  Effect: All allies within the burst regain hit points equal to your Wisdom bonus.
  
• Assume Burden (Utility 12)
  Encounter • Divine
  Minor • Close burst 5
  Target: one ally within burst
  Effect: All effects affecting the target that can be ended with a saving throw are transferred to you. If an effect worsens, you suffer its initial effect (for example, if you were to use Assume Burden on an ally who was unconscious due to a Sleep spell, you would be Slowed, and a failed save against this Slow effect would then render you unconscious).
  
• Righteous Revitalization (Attack 20)
  Daily • Divine, Radiant
  Standard • Personal
  Effect: Until the end of the encounter, any enemy that starts its turn adjacent to you takes 1d4+Wis radiant damage; any bloodied ally who starts his turn adjacent to you gains temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Cheers, -- N

 

[WhatGravitas]

Okay, it's massive, so it's hard to comment on it. My general impression: It looks solid... but here are still some comments:

Arcane Apprentice [Multiclass] -- Heroic
Prerequisites: Int 13, Ritual Caster, training in Arcana
Benefit: You may use the Wizard's class feature Cantrips at will, just as a Wizard would.
You may use Wands, Staves and Orbs as Implements when using powers from the Wizard class (though you do not gain Arcane Implement Mastery).
Additionally, you are considered to be a Wizard for the purpose of meeting the qualifications of feats and Paragon Paths.

Well, cantrips are power-wise very weak, but I see a lot of out-of-combat role infringement when you hand out all cantrips with their whole power. I'd rather reserve the full-fledged cantripping power for the start of the paragon path. Instead, I'd rather fold Arcane Student into it with the at-will powers or make them per encounter - all other class features you hand out are also restricted.

Champion's Initiate -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Str 13, Champion's Squire
Benefit: Once per day, you may Channel Divinity to use either Divine Mettle or Divine Strength. You may take feats which add options regarding your Channel Divinity ability.

So that's basically a cleric-only feat?

Faithful Initiate -- Paragon
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Faithful Acolyte
Benefit: Once per day, you may Channel Divinity to use either Divine Fortune or Turn Undead. You may take feats which add options regarding your Channel Divinity ability.

And that a paladin-only feat?

Not that there's anything wrong with giving people some synergy, if they do the paladin/cleric split.

Furthermore: It's awfully hard to fulfill the prerequisites for the more combat-heavy classes (fighter, paladin, and especially warlord!). It eludes me why you require heavy armour proficiency - for the lightly armoured classes, this requires a huge investment upfront, delaying the entry considerably.

And it's not really balancing - if you're in melee, you're going to get armour earlier or later anyway. And there is no real role infringement, as the worse armour, plus hit points, plus other stuff (proficiencies) will keep you from infringing anyway. It only makes it much harder for dabblers and delays multiclassing - but a good multiclassing system should make multiclassing available early, as the point of the system is allowing you to flesh out character concepts.

Which isn't fun, nor in line with 4E's philosophy, I think, if you have to wait several levels to even get the most basic feat.

Well, all of this obviously depends on the interplay with the Paragon Paths, so my opinion might change on specific points.

Cheers, LT.

 

[mattdm]

Well, cantrips are power-wise very weak, but I see a lot of out-of-combat role infringement when you hand out all cantrips with their whole power.

Yeah, that was the thing that jumped out at me right away too. Maybe choose one cantrip?

 

[Nifft]

Well, cantrips are power-wise very weak, but I see a lot of out-of-combat role infringement when you hand out all cantrips with their whole power. I'd rather reserve the full-fledged cantripping power for the start of the paragon path. Instead, I'd rather fold Arcane Student into it with the at-will powers or make them per encounter - all other class features you hand out are also restricted.

Cantrips aren't bad. Light has obvious combat application, and Mage Hand is even better (Conjuration = enemy blocker, allies can pass through just fine). Mage Hand is literally the foundation of the Controller. IMHO, it seems like a good fit.

So that's basically a cleric-only feat?

And that a paladin-only feat?

Not my intention. I'll make it more explicit that you gain the ability to Channel Divinity if you previously could not.

Furthermore: It's awfully hard to fulfill the prerequisites for the more combat-heavy classes (fighter, paladin, and especially warlord!). It eludes me why you require heavy armour proficiency - for the lightly armoured classes, this requires a huge investment upfront, delaying the entry considerably.

Warlock, Ranger and Rogue are all one feat away. Wizards are two feats away.

I see your point about Warlord, though. He's not necessarily a heavily armored guy.

And it's not really balancing - if you're in melee, you're going to get armour earlier or later anyway. And there is no real role infringement, as the worse armour, plus hit points, plus other stuff (proficiencies) will keep you from infringing anyway. It only makes it much harder for dabblers and delays multiclassing - but a good multiclassing system should make multiclassing available early, as the point of the system is allowing you to flesh out character concepts.

My goal is to have PCs filling as many functions of their multi-class before entering as possible. I'm probably erring, but at least it's on the side of caution.

For some race/class combinations, it's really dead easy to qualify, though: Dwarf Cleric gets heavy armor and Warhammer proficiency.

Finally, I want to increase the value of a Human's bonus feat, and deliberately make Humans better at multi-classing than other races.

Cheers, -- N

 

[WhatGravitas]

Cantrips aren't bad. Light has obvious combat application, and Mage Hand is even better (Conjuration = enemy blocker, allies can pass through just fine). Mage Hand is literally the foundation of the Controller. IMHO, it seems like a good fit.

Y'know, that makes giving them out as at-wills wholesale even worse!

Not my intention. I'll make it more explicit that you gain the ability to Channel Divinity if you previously could not.

Ah, that makes them much better and more interesting!

Warlock, Ranger and Rogue are all one feat away. Wizards are two feats away.

Yeah, and I like that, especially because the required feats are pretty fitting and worth getting on their own (4E has shown me why feat trees are bad!)

My goal is to have PCs filling as many functions of their multi-class before entering as possible. I'm probably erring, but at least it's on the side of caution.

Yeah, I started from the worst case (i.e. wizard) and noticed that fighter (and the even more fitting warlord=) are hard to get - especially as you'll underperform in the defender role with heavy armour, if you have a high dexterity or intelligence - which is realistic, if you're not starting out in a class with heavy armour.

Finally, I want to increase the value of a Human's bonus feat, and deliberately make Humans better at multi-classing than other races.

That's interesting and fitting. But then you should fix the half-elf as well!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Nifft]

Yeah, I started from the worst case (i.e. wizard) and noticed that fighter (and the even more fitting warlord=) are hard to get - especially as you'll underperform in the defender role with heavy armour, if you have a high dexterity or intelligence - which is realistic, if you're not starting out in a class with heavy armour.

Note that you'll always need Int or Dex to boost your Reflex defense, with or without armor.

That's interesting and fitting. But then you should fix the half-elf as well!

I've got an idea for a half-elf fix, but it's not related to implicit multi-classing assumptions. Ah, what the hell, here it is:

Power Adapter [Half-Elf] -- Heroic
Benefit: You may change the ability used to determine the attack bonus of your cross-class Dilettante power. If the power's attack roll is normally based on a mental ability score, choose any other mental ability score. If the power's attack roll is normally based on a physical ability score, choose any other physical ability score. Damage and any other effects the power may have are determined normally.

"Plug'n'Play", -- N

 

[mattdm]

Power Adapter [Half-Elf] -- Heroic
Benefit: You may change the ability used to determine the attack bonus of your cross-class Dilettante power. If the power's attack roll is normally based on a mental ability score, choose any other mental ability score. If the power's attack roll is normally based on a physical ability score, choose any other physical ability score. Damage and any other effects the power may have are determined normally.

Hey, that was my idea. Although actually I'm considering making this not a bonus feat but just my half-elf house rule (instead of making the Con +2 movable.)

 

[Nifft]

Hey, that was my idea. Although actually I'm considering making this not a bonus feat but just my half-elf house rule (instead of making the Con +2 movable.)

You're lucky, in that you claim to think like me.

Giving it as a free bonus is bad, though. How do you justify that mathematically?

Cheers, -- N

 

[mattdm]

Giving it as a free bonus is bad, though. How do you justify that mathematically?

Well, how do you justify mathematically that it's the right price for a racial feat?

This is where the "considering" comes in. If after a while the general consensus remains that the half-elf is the weakest race, giving it a little free boost seems perfectly good. Otherwise, the feat is probably the way to go.

 

[Nifft]

Well, how do you justify mathematically that it's the right price for a racial feat?

This is where the "considering" comes in. If after a while the general consensus remains that the half-elf is the weakest race, giving it a little free boost seems perfectly good. Otherwise, the feat is probably the way to go.

Wrong. It's easy to justify numerically.

Humans, for example, have access to Action Surge, which is +3 to all attacks made with one standard action every other encounter. This is very flexible -- for a multi-target Daily, it's brilliant.

The difference between a dump stat and a primary stat is +3 to +4 at first level, and that gap increases over the course of your career.

This feat allows a Half-Elf to use his extra Encounter power (1/encounter, not 1/2 encounters) with a +3 or +4 bonus to the attack roll, but the Encounter power he gets to use it on is inferior to other Encounter powers (since it's actually an At-Will).

So we have +3 to a scaling power (Humans) 1/2 encounters, or a scaling bonus to a fixed power (Half-Elves) 1/encounter.

- - -

Now look at Elven Precision: +2 to your Encounter re-roll. This is one of the best abilities in the game, because you can use it after you discover your Daily was going to miss. However, let's pretend we're using it naively (re-roll the first 10 or lower we get on an Encounter or Daily power). The expected bonus of Elven Accuracy alone is +2 (if used naively). Together with Elven Precision, that bonus becomes +4 -- exactly the optimal expected bonus of Power Adapter. However, you're applying that bonus after you know you're going to need it, and you're applying it to a scaling power (though only to a single target).

- - -

Half-Elves do need a boost, but giving them a free benefit of this scale isn't "minor". Allowing one of their bonuses to "float" isn't minor either.

If you have more questions, ask in a different thread please.

Cheers, -- N