Ninja question - Ghost step

[shilsen]

The description of the Ghost Step ability says that a ninja using it becomes invisible for 1 round. Since it does not reference the invisibility spell, I presume this form of invisibility does not have the restrictions of the spell (i.e. reappearing if you attack someone). So a ninja could use the Ghost Step ability and go invisible and make one or more attacks without reappearing until the 1 round duration expires.

Am I correct?

 

[Lasher Dragon]

AHHH I never thought of that... damn now I need to make a ninja LOL

 

[RigaMortus]

The description of the Ghost Step ability says that a ninja using it becomes invisible for 1 round. Since it does not reference the invisibility spell, I presume this form of invisibility does not have the restrictions of the spell (i.e. reappearing if you attack someone). So a ninja could use the Ghost Step ability and go invisible and make one or more attacks without reappearing until the 1 round duration expires.

Am I correct?

At the same time, the ability is not called "Greater Invisibility" nor does it make reference to the Greater Invisibility spell.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Last thread I saw, that seemed to be the consensus, yes, since the Ghost Step ability is Su and not Sp.

IMO, though, it's something the authors overlooked, especially since there's the Invisibility, Swift spell in CAdv that is the same thing as the Ghost Step ability, but works like the Invisibility spell...

If Ghost Step works for a full round even if the ninja attacks, what's the point of Ki Dodge?

AR

AR

 

[Crothian]

If Ghost Step works for a full round even if the ninja attacks, what's the point of Ki Dodge?

Ki Dodge gets past detect invisibility

 

[rowport]

Yes, we had quite a lengthy thread on this subject just a couple of weeks back. The (I think universal) consensus was that the effect lasts for the entire round, since it does not refer to the invisibility spell and only says "... for 1 round." It is worth noting that the description talks about other ways to defeat invisibility, some of which are addressed by the higher level Ki Powers. So, I am pretty confident this is an intentional design, not errata.

Since I am playing a Ninja now, I can give you an in-game sense of it: it is not overpowered. The spellcaster I used it on quickly cast Faerie Fire to defeat it, so I only successfully used Ghost Step (Invisible) twice against him. Then I had to switch to Improved Feint instead to deny him his Dex bonus. Also, keep in mind, its limited times per day prevent it from being your sole tactic. And, most importantly, it is a heck of a lot easier to get a Sneak Attack with flanking than getting your opponent to lose his Dex bonus- which is the only way that Sudden Strike works. So, the limitations of Sudden Strike more than balance the advantages of Ghost Step.

It is a way cool, way fun to play class, though. I encourage anybody to give it a whirl.

 

[Felix]

The spellcaster I used it on quickly cast Faerie Fire to defeat it, so I only successfully used Ghost Step (Invisible) twice against him.

Only two full attacks with the bonus damage dice?

Let's compare equivalent level characters, and how much two full attacks with Sudden Strike will hurt. For simplicity's sake, the Ninja's STR mod and the Wizard's CON mod are the same.

3rd Level
Mage: 3d4 + 3 x CON .............. Average HP: 9 + 3 x CON

Druid/Cleric: 3d8 + 3x CON ............ Average HP: 17 + 3 x CON

Damage from 2 SS: 2 x [1d6 (Base) + 2d6 (Sudden Strike) + STR] ...... Average Damage: 21 + 2 x STR


8th Level
Mage: 8d4 + 8 x CON .......... Average HP: 21.5 + 8 x CON

Druid/Cleric: 8d8 + 8 x CON ........... Average HP: 39.5 + 8 x CON

2 SS: 4 x [1d6 (Base) + 4d6 (Sudden Strike) + STR] ......... Average Damage: 70 + 4 x STR

Point being, once that iterative attack comes into play, a full attack with Sudden Strike becomes something even a d8 Hit Die character can hardly stand. It's absurd.

The Ghost Step ability lets the ninja get in the one hit that will ensure that 99% of victims will die; no NPC classed character will survive that. Nor should they... it is a ninja after all. The ability lets the ninja get in and out of places quietly and kill people without warning. OK. But he'd better bloody well kill him in the first attack, or he's out of a job.

Or it lets him disappear for one round, and that ain't shabby at all. No sir. The ability can be offensive in use, or defensive. He can't very well be attacked (barring a ubiquitious See Invisibile) if he's invisibile, can he?

RAW, it grants invisibility for one round. But I cannot but believe that this was an oversight. I'm waiting for the eratta, and until then am willing to reside in the House Rules forum over this.

 

[Crothian]

It just give the ninja an easy way to do their sneak attack, rogues have flank ninjas have these. You are also assuming the ninja is hitting all the time, which might noit be the case especially on the second attack.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Doesn't really seem that broken to me... I mean, they're ninjas... do they get Hide In Plain Sight? Walk on water? Poison use? Kender-like weapons with like 5 different uses/special qualities to each?

 

[Crothian]

Doesn't really seem that broken to me... I mean, they're ninjas... do they get Hide In Plain Sight? Walk on water? Poison use? Kender-like weapons with like 5 different uses/special qualities to each?

Hide in Plain Sight: they can turn invisible, that's close enough
Poison Use: At level 3
Walk on Water: DC 90 Balance check and balance is a class skill
Kender like weapon: Only in Dragonlance