Ninja-To, Cutlass, Wakizashi: All just short swords, or something different?

[AFGNCAAP]

Thanks for the replies!

Hmm... though the rarity of a ninja-to fits with making it an exotic weapon, mechanically it doesn't seem rewarding--a wakizashi is basically the same, yet you'd only need a martial WP instead of an exotic WP to use it.

From what I've seen of a ninja-to, most follow these dimensions:

• 2-foot long blade, straight & singled-edged.
• A hilt long enough to accomodate 2 hands, though it's easily light enough to be wielded in 1.
• Square gard instead of a round guard.

In OA, they mention the multi-use aspects of the weapon, but I wouldn't think this would necessitate an exotic WP.

However, 1 thing I was considering was, based on the size of the hilt, was that the sword could be used as a normal 2-handed weapon (i.e. x1.5 Str bonus dmg) despite being a "light" weapon. I'd figure with that property that it'd really fit into the exotic weapon category.

As for a cutlass, I'm envisioning the genuine smaller curved swords w/ hand guards (same sword is also called a "hanger"), rather than the larger saber/scimitar-like weapon often depicted as a cutlass.

And, I totally forgot about the newer DR categories that include weapon damage type (slash, pierce, blunt). Very good reason to avoid grouping of damage types into a single weapon.

 

[pyk]

From what I've seen of a ninja-to, most follow these dimensions:

• 2-foot long blade, straight & singled-edged.
• A hilt long enough to accomodate 2 hands, though it's easily light enough to be wielded in 1.
• Square gard instead of a round guard.

You forgot the most basic part: Created in the twentieth century.

"Ninja-to" is a cinematic fluff type thing, created for movies. Ninjas no more carried a honking big piece of metal on their backs (which would have created problems for their sneaking around) than I do.

Ninjas were more common with small dart type shuriken, daggers, small chains, things they could hide under their clothing and would absolutely NOT interfere with their movement and silence.

Besides, logically, IF they were to use a sword, and keep it over their back as the cinema would have us believe, it would be far more believable if it were a wakishazi, as these swords had the slight curve which would have been beneficial to the carrying method. As well as the fighting method, which was to be used against unarmored/unaware opponents, where the draw cut style attack would be useful.

 

[danzig138]

You forgot the most basic part: Created in the twentieth century.

Since I'm always looking for good information on oriental weapons for my game, where did you get this info?

 

[mhd]

Erm, while I agree that the ninja-to is mostly a product of modern fiction, I'd have to disagree with the assumption that carrying around a "honking big piece of metal" wasn't done or is that stupid.

Due to folk myths, modern "practitioners" spreading misinformation and disagreeing scholars, it's not as easy getting a balanced view about "ninjas", but it's not all just an invention of modern western movies, making japanese bogeyman into a reality...

It seems that the view of ninjas as highly-trained assassins raised in secret societies is mostly wrong. Usually they were low-class samurai for special occassions where less compunctions and honor was needed. Some kind of Samurai special forces. So you can assume they were all trained with swords, why not use on a not-so-stealthy mission. When you and your compatriots get caught in the fortress of the enemy, what you're gonna do? Do everything with shaken and chains? You're probably carrying enough equipment already, a blade on your back wouldn't be that cumbersome.

Apparently the mostly were shorter, but it's not like wakizashis and katanas had specified lengths. Shorter blades just are less cumbersome and easier to draw, quite a surprise when you hide them in longer scabbards and your opponent thinks that at this distance you're not dangerous...

Crudely forged straight blades just for ninjas shouldn't be dismissed altogether. They are rather easy to come by (but with all the battlefields in the sengoku era, that shouldn't be a problem), and they would allow some stuff that you shouldn't do with a katana. Using it as a prybar, for example. Or actually parrying -- which you usually don't do with the real swords. If the metal is a little softer, you could use it to break the katana with it. Unless your opponent has a very good blade and is strong enough to just cut through your little toy...

But hey, quite a long post about reality when you consider that most weapons straight from the PHB have no straight historical precedent. I'm not even talking about dire flails and double axes...

If your ninjas have ninja-to's, fine. I still find it hard to classify them as exotic, but it sure helps the players get a sense of mystery about the ninjas. If you need black-clad assassins, why not? Surely no worse than orcs, double-bladed axes, vikings in medieval settings or castles that are built within eight weeks...

 

[Christian]

Come on, we're not talking rocket science here. It's got a grip, it's got a blade, 'nuff said.

Don Diego de la Vega: "Do you know how to use that?"

Alejandro Murrieta: (shrugging) "The pointy end goes in the other guy."

Don Diego: "We have a lot of work to do."

(Sorry, just couldn't resist.)

 

[mhd]

"How does it feel? Do you like the balance?"
"I think so," Arya said.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."

 

[pyk]

Since I'm always looking for good information on oriental weapons for my game, where did you get this info?

History channel, TLC, books, word of mouth from some folks who've studied such things. Too many locations to remember them all.

rm, while I agree that the ninja-to is mostly a product of modern fiction, I'd have to disagree with the assumption that carrying around a "honking big piece of metal" wasn't done or is that stupid.

Due to folk myths, modern "practitioners" spreading misinformation and disagreeing scholars, it's not as easy getting a balanced view about "ninjas", but it's not all just an invention of modern western movies, making japanese bogeyman into a reality...

Except, we're talking about the classic japanese bogeymen here. The one's created by using that misinformation and folk myths. For those types of characters to work, that "honking big piece of metal" does not make sense. Try to sneak around with that on your back, crawling through bushes, in through wondows, trying to be as the wind...

A "honking big piece of metal" sticking out on your back will create problems when you're trying to move stealthily, even with training. More likely, if a ninja were to go into a place where fighting was seen as likely, this ninja would carry the sword in hand (still in the scabbard) or have it slipped into his sash/belt. Oh, and actually that image isn't a creation of the western movies, but of the eastern influence of the movies. Trying to put across the mystique of the culture. Especially where the culture was not quite as open as it is now. Similar thing with the "quick-draw" gunfights of the old west. Created for the movies to enhance the stereo types, mostly from the Italian productions.

As for will it work in D&D, well it works quite well in movies, don't it? That thing on your back sticking out the way it does just won't be a problem when you're fighting dragons and orcs.

 

[mhd]

A "honking big piece of metal" sticking out on your back will create problems when you're trying to move stealthily, even with training. More likely, if a ninja were to go into a place where fighting was seen as likely, this ninja would carry the sword in hand (still in the scabbard) or have it slipped into his sash/belt.

If a quiver and bow works for the hunter... I'd say it probably depends on the type of environment, the size of the weapon and the user and numerous other factors. That's the main problem with the contemporary ninja image, it's all so homogenous. Black-clad, with swords on their backs and throwing stars in their sleeves...

 

[Will]

I think the simple/martial/exotic distinction has a lot more to do with training than exposure. Crossbows get weird, because while they don't require much training, they are also not similar to other weapons a character may have tried.

Odd swords are no big deal. Wacky double swords and chains... that's tricky. Bastard swords are, as it describes, just a bit too big to use one-handed without special training. Thus, exotic to use one-handed.

I think most swords are going to qualify as martial unless they have bizarre properties or designs. Like a sword-sized kukri or the khopesh, perhaps.

 

[LGodamus]

Just to let you know....I have seen ninja to that are much much older than 20th century...they were not common as movies would have you believe , but they do exist and ninja did use them.