D&D (2024) No Appendix N Equivalent?

[TiQuinn]

A while back, I mentioned I'd included a reference to Treasure Island in an adventure.

Player: "I've only seen the muppet version."

Smart people know the Muppet version is one of the best versions.

 

[Deset Gled]

I am still trying to understand the benefit of an Appendix N. It seems so obvious to me that this kind of "favorite sources" list works better in DnDBeyond than in any hardcopy book. For one thing, a digital list can modify, add, evolve, and specialize. Today, such a list in a book becomes almost instantly obsolete the moment a new fantasy movie becomes popculture.

For me, Appendix N does a lot to help get the feel of the "default" D&D world. That is to say, if you jump in and start a game with only the basic PHB material and nothing else, what does the world feel like. Is it more medieval, or more magi-tech? Are fantasy races completely integrated, or separate kingdoms? How dangerous/important/fun are magic, gods, and ghosts? That kind of look-and-feel that is partly, but not completely, baked in to the mechanics.

Of course, it doesn't help that there's much less of a consensus about that stuff as D&D gets a wider audience. And there are people who actively fight the existence of a default setting. The idea of a living list would be one way to help. Multiple lists would be even better.

 

[LordEntrails]

All the lists you want, and living in nature too, already exists. Just use your favorite search engine. Such as:

inspirational reading suggestion for D&D - Google Search

We really don't need a fixed list that just eats up pages that can be better used in a hundred other ways.

 

[SteveC]

I think that the inspirational books section is extremely important for people just coming into the hobby. I've read a lot of RPG books lately from different authors and they have all had an inspirational sources section. It gave me an idea as a reader of that style of game this one was designed to emulate.

I remember when I first saw Appendix N, it gave me a lot of books to check out! I was just a kid, and some of them may have been not entirely age-appropriate but I managed to get through it.

I think the reason why you don't see this in D&D is because, as the big dog, there is the assumption that people know what style of fantasy D&D is designed to emulate, and that's D&D style. I also think you're going to find a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum being upset at the books you pick. It's sort of a no win.

 

[Lanefan]

Hot take: Even most of the grognards complaining about Appendix N missing would not use it at all, they just want a confirmation for their taste.

I've not read mot of the original Appendix N but its presence in 1e inspired me to put my own "inspirations list" on my campaign's website.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Wouldn't the only real point of having an Appendix N in the new books be just to check to see if a book that hasn't been relevant for the past 30 years was cut and then complaining?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I think that the inspirational books section is extremely important for people just coming into the hobby. I've read a lot of RPG books lately from different authors and they have all had an inspirational sources section. It gave me an idea as a reader of that style of game this one was designed to emulate.

Precisely.

I think the reason why you don't see this in D&D is because, as the big dog, there is the assumption that people know what style of fantasy D&D is designed to emulate, and that's D&D style. I also think you're going to find a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum being upset at the books you pick. It's sort of a no win.

And I think that assumption is false. Especially given 5e has allegedly brought millions of new people into the hobby. I'd also say that if D&D's core focus is so clear already, having tools and advice for how to bend it in new directions is more useful, not less.

I could not care less about the "political" implications, but if it's upsetting "both sides" then I'm doubly unruffled.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Wouldn't the only real point of having an Appendix N in the new books be just to check to see if a book that hasn't been relevant for the past 30 years was cut and then complaining?

I am saddened to hear you say this. Surely you can see that it could serve other purposes too? Like helping to show how various works could help a new DM express campaign themes that excite them?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I am saddened to hear you say this. Surely you can see that it could serve other purposes too? Like helping to show how various works could help a new DM express campaign themes that excite them?

Considering all the anger and pushback against giving tools and advice for new DMs, do you think that's really why we're wanting it on the book and not to get mad that Poul Anderson wasn't kept in or that literally any anime did?

 

[Voadam]

I found the original 1e appendix list and the Moldvay list fun and useful in seeing formative elements of D&D as the years went by.

As an eight year old I had read Tolkien and Lloyd Alexander and saw how they could model fantasy worlds and characters and plots in D&D. Later I read a bunch of Howard and Lieber and saw more adventure and D&D models like how cool a concept a thief can be even if TSR crippled the mechanics to be a bumbling hobbit burglar. Zelazny showed a multiverse model with Law and Chaos. Moorcock later showed me demon lord interactions and cosmic alignment and powerful magic from a PC type. Lovecraft showed me the cosmic horror aspects that I saw in the elder Elemental Eye, Juiblex, yochlols, and Erol Otis art in D&D. Vance showed me vancian casting, high speed flimflammery, and verbose spell names. Anderson later showed more alignment and the 1e dwarf specific abilities in action and a paladin model in action and D&D trolls which were otherwise just an unexplained thing for why they regenerate and are vulnerable to fire.

It is neat to read these and see the elements that went into D&D. It gives me a more in depth understanding of a lot of the foundational things. Not necessary in any sense but fun and useful for understanding some aspects.

I learned a lot of cool ways to have Law and Chaos in a game I generally don’t think I would have thought of on my own from just the game but that went into my 3e/pathfinder house rules of alignment as Cosmic Forces and not morality judgments that I used in my campaigns for years until 5e changed the mechanical impact of alignment in my games.