No Common Language - comments?

[Nifft]

IMC there is no Common tongue. The First Empire spoke Latin, so many educated people speak that -- regardless of the local language. There are four main regions of human settlement, and they speak French, Spanish, Italian and Portugese -- which all grew out of Latin being geographically isolated.

There are many non-human languages, though: Elven and Dwarven are unified and haven't changed much in recorded history, Draconic is spoken by many mages and scholars, Celestial is taught by most churches, every rural community has at least one Sylvan speaker, and Infernal and Abyssal are available too.

Note that I have some flavorful restrictions on the non-human languages: http://klimt.cns.nyu.edu/~fishman/DnD/languages.shtml

-- N

 

[RangerWickett]

The original languages on the continent of Trema were various local dialects of Jenelesti (the Elvish language that the native Elves spoke; Elves controlled most civilized territory), Herethim (spoken by most of the humans who lived in the eastern and central areas, primarily roaming tribes), Gresian (spoken by the slightly more civilized human cultures in the western lands, and Kelaquois, spoken by the real savage humans in the northlands.

There were also the Jispin, who had an advanced caravan culture, but their language was particularly prone to shifting as they changed from area to area; the core of the language remains the same, but much of it blends with whatever area they're in. In the southern half of Trema (the continent's kinda split in two, like America), the Chaopin language was spoken by some of the first humans, and one of the few human civilizations. This language got picked up by numerous goblinoid races that may have been created through Chaopin magic.

Dragons had their own language, as did the fey, but those languages were somehow ingrained in their existence, and do not change.

Around 4000 years ago, the Serens arrived from over the sea, landing in eastern Trema and conquering widely. By about 3000 years ago, they controlled most of the continent, and had driven most other cultures into isolated pockets. The Seren language mingled with the local languages, and in some places languages just drifted, so that by 3000 years ago you have Seren, Gresian, Herethim, Kelaquois, traditional Jenelesti, the split languages of Shahalesti, Taranesti, and Kohalesti, Chaopin, Jispin, Leylandish, Cavalesh, and Ragesian.

The Ragesian Empire conquers the entire world, and then falls about 200 years later, creating an age of darkness that took thousands of years to climb out of. In the time that passed, Shahalesti split into Innenlesti, Vaneljesti, and Tundanesti; Chaopin died out but Geidon and Aechani developed; Cavalesh derived into Lyceian; Ragesian spawned Sindairese and Dorisian; Seren died out then came back as Tennae; and Herethim mingled with a few other languages to create Nau-Herethim. No one really speaks Seren, Gresian, Herethi, Jenelesti, Chaopin, Leylandish, or Ragesian anymore, but they're noteworthy for study.

Toss in Draconic, Fey, various celestial and infernal languages, the elemental dialects, and all manner of unknown languages in the land below, and I think I've got a pretty diverse set of languages. I hope I didn't forget any.

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

Thanks, everyone! I've gotten alot of new ideas to think about, now... I just have to sit down and decide what exactly I want to do with them...

 

[Xeriar]

So, I was sitting there, working on my homebrew world and flipping through the FRCS. I love the idea of regional languages, etc - but dislike the idea of having a 'common' tongue. How often do we actually *use* those regional languages in a game? Or even racial languages, for that matter, since nearly everyone starts knowing Common?

One of my worlds had a 'common' tongue that was in place because of a world-spanning empire, but now with its fall it was rapidly diverging and being supplanted be the original languages.

Another campaign had all players start in the same region, so they all spoke the same tongue by default.

If you want to have something more realistic, their really should be a Lingua Franca of a region... For example, English is the lingua franca of the world right now, but in Roman times there was Latin, ancient Mandarin, and possibly say, Olmec. Then work out living languages that are in fairly common use.

After that, I would also make it rather easy for players to get multiple languages. Everyone starting with 2+ int bonus for example. Swashbuckling Adventures might have a good system, I should look it up.

I do not want to have a Common tongue in my homebrew world. Instead, I would have a 'Trade' language - but this would be more or less unknown by the general population. It would also be difficult to get any message across that does not involve trading terms, etc. Basically, it would be a merchant tongue (requiring some good roleplaying from the PCs to get a non-trading meaning across).

Numbers are the trade language of the modern world. This only works if you have an entrenched currency, though.

So what do you all think? I think that this would revise the worth of spells such as Comprehend Languages and Tongues, and would make all those additional languages you get from high INT scores useful. Also, I will be allowing the Speak Language skill to buy you 1 language per skill point (since it is a cross-class skill for everyone except bards, it normally costs 2 skill point per language).

Actually I neutered those spells... Comprehend Languages and tongues required a willing target who could speak the language.

Because I didn't want the spells to make dealing with ancient tongues and remote civilizations so trivial.

 

[thatdarncat]

Actually I neutered those spells... Comprehend Languages and tongues required a willing target who could speak the language.

Because I didn't want the spells to make dealing with ancient tongues and remote civilizations so trivial.

I'm doing pretty much the same. So far the PCs have had to deal with a journal and a couple of unholy texts written in Infernal

I like a lot of the ideas that have been brought up in this thread. I'm probably not going to remove common from my campaign, but I think I'm definitly going to emphasize the different dialects and not everyone is going to speak common

 

[Spatzimaus]

This may not help you too much, but IMC, there are basically six parallel planes, each tied to a different element, and the typical adventurer lives on the Elemental Plane of Life (which has the same layout and basic history as Earth, modified a bit for magic). Being the center of Life Magic and all, it's a plane with a lot more population than the others. So, while the plane of water might only have a few million sentient inhabitants and one or two common languages, our plane will have billions of people with hundreds of languages.

The d20modern rules have two key skills for this: Read/Write Language, and Speak Language. They also separate the languages into groups, but don't give any sort of bonus for the groups other than an optional class ability for one class. The big problem is this: if you expand the language skills to have multiple levels of complexity, you'll need to remove (or really raise in level) the Comprehend Languages, Tongues, and Mindlink spells/powers. Otherwise, anyone who spends tons of skill points on languages will be inferior to someone who uses a basic spell or cheap item.

IMC we said that most major languages on Gaia (the plane of life) were derived from the nearly-static languages from the other planes. Japanese is an offshoot of Sylvan, one of the main languages from the plane of air, in the same way that French and Spanish are both offshoots of Latin (which was itself an offshoot of the Djinn language). Ancient Greek is based on Atlantean (Atlantis is the largest city-state on the plane of water). And so on. So, take the d20Modern language groups, trim off a few, and add your other languages to the existing groups.

Then, add a "comprehension check", like this:

If two characters lacking a common language are trying to communicate, they must each make an INT check with a DC based on the complexity of the information being passed. For example, you can break it down like this:

Basic information that can be pantomimed and where the phrasing of the question doesn't really matter ("Where is the bathroom?"): DC 5, but the player has to actually act it out. Great for humor value, BTW.
More complex information that either includes proper nouns or can be partially pantomimed ("Which way to the Hagia Sophia?"): DC 10
Detailed information with no easy context, but with a straightforward answer ("Where can I find a good restaurant at a reasonable price near here?"): DC 15
Complex or technical information requiring a detailed answer ("How do I fix my electric toothbrush that exploded when I plugged into the 220V wall outlet?"): DC 20

Both participants have to succeed in their checks for this to work. If either fails by 5 or more, they misunderstand what the other said in a way that causes them to trade incorrect information.

If either person uses a language in the group containing a language the other knows, add a +2 circumstance bonus to this check for both participants. This works both ways; if an American who knows some Spanish is trying to get information from a Frenchman who can speak German, they each get a +4 bonus because they each know a language from the other's group. When they get stuck in the discussion, each can use a word from their second language that the other is more likely to understand.

 

[Urbannen]

The next time I run FR I'm dropping Common. I don't really see the need for it, especially since Chondathan and Damaran each cover such large expanses of land. Since the game is going to be in Vaasa and Damara, it's simple enough to say all the characters have to speak Damaran. If a humanoid speaks "Common", it will instead speak "Damaran", the common human language. I'm going to consider Chondathan to be the "international language" for people who care, and they can spend one skill point to be able to speak a pidgin of it, allowing them to communicate with others that also know some Chondathan. I think it makes sense for the human language to be a Common language, considering the LotR roots of the Common tongue concept and the dominance of humans in FR.