No exotic weapons feats: Draft rules posted (post # 9) Mathematics & opinions wanted.

[Brother Shatterstone]

This topic is countinued from this thread: link

In there I made a statement about how I thought that the use of a feat for most exotic weapons would make them useless or basically unused and I suggested that the weapons should have a BAB requirement to show the need for experience instead.

Has anyone done this before? If so how did it work out?

Also what does everyone think about this in general?

 

[LazerPointer]

As a player I don't like using up a feat for an exotic weapon. The only class I'd do this in is Fighter, because they get so many feats along the way.

I like the idea of some other requirement, be it BAB, maybe burning some skill ranks, or some story rationale, like being exposed to the culture that uses the weapon for a month or two.

I just thought of using the skill ranks now; it could make it more attractive to other classes. How many ranks would I say needed to be devoted? Maybe two ranks for every 1 reduction in the -4 non-proficient penalty.

Of course, they couldn't keep devoting ranks to increase their attack bonus....

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I just thought of using the skill ranks now; it could make it more attractive to other classes. How many ranks would I say needed to be devoted? Maybe two ranks for every 1 reduction in the -4 non-proficient penalty.

It punishes fighters too much with their zero skill points and awards smart characters too much, IMHO.

BAB is used so that experience is even through all characters of the same class and level. It would really just come down to determining the BAB requirement for each exotic weapon and which one would be feat only.

 

[AeroDm]

Skill points for weapon profs isn't the best plan because of classes like rogue. In 3.5 the ranger will become the new weapon master, something many already dislike.

BAB is interesting, although what if a fighter plans to use the Bastard Sword and wants to buy Focus/Spec before meeting the requirements? I think you may encounter a lot of problems at low levels and at high levels everyone will be using the clearly superior weapons.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

BAB is interesting, although what if a fighter plans to use the Bastard Sword and wants to buy Focus/Spec before meeting the requirements?

Well I'm not one for saying no to a player... I think its all about options and I play more than anything and haven't DMed since 2nd edition.

That said I would say yeah you could take the exotic weapon proficiency and the weapon focus (with a BAB +1 still)... So no changes their but I wouldn't allow improve critical and any other "named" weapon feat in till your qualify for the weapon with your BAB. So basically you would lose a feat and I imagine this would turn of anyone quickly other than a fighter, and if I were said fighter I would bulk too.

I think you may encounter a lot of problems at low levels and at high levels everyone will be using the clearly superior weapons.

Low levels maybe I don't quite see it as you would benefit in the long term.

At medium level I would imagine an 10th level fighter would have long ago figured out how to use a bastard sword with out using a feat. This would also include the paladin and the ranger.

High Level, man it all depends upon what's magic... Yeah you obviously know how to use a bastard sword but that long sword is so much more superior cause it’s magical and you took that improved critical on it. (Translation the DM could control this.)

Another issue would be PrC but its simple to fix also... If it's a combat PrC you need to have the focus instead of exotic weapons feat. If it's casting, say like the heartwarder, you just need to quality with your BAB and you could skip the feat.

Hows that sound?

 

[Staffan]

In Arcana Unearthed, Monte kept exotic weapons, but simplified it to two types: Agile (including ranged) and Heavy. Heavy exotics are the ones that just do more damage than regular ones (e.g. bastard sword), whereas Agile exotics are those that do weird stuff (spiked chain would be an agile exotic weapon if AU had it).

I kind of like this, because at least for the heavy ones, it should be enough paying for the increased damage capacity once. Being able to use both a bastard sword and a waraxe shouldn't cost twice as much as only being able to use either.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

In Arcana Unearthed, Monte kept exotic weapons, but simplified it to two types: Agile (including ranged) and Heavy. Heavy exotics are the ones that just do more damage than regular ones (e.g. bastard sword), whereas Agile exotics are those that do weird stuff (spiked chain would be an agile exotic weapon if AU had it).

Hmmm maybe I should look through their for some ideas on this...

I kind of like this, because at least for the heavy ones, it should be enough paying for the increased damage capacity once. Being able to use both a bastard sword and a waraxe shouldn't cost twice as much as only being able to use either.

Thanks I'm glad you like this, I imagine there our some flaws that I haven't thought this idea did come to me while I was sick as a dog.

Anyhow tomorrow I'll break out the books and start ranking the exotic weapons from best to last then dropping them in BAB groups of like BAB +2, BAB +4 and what not.

If anyone has any opinions on best I would be interested in reading them.

 

[Darklone]

Another vote for the AU exotic rules... as long as you don't use the Dire templates for weapons

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Exotic Weapons by BAB

This system isn’t meant to replace the feat system when it comes to weapon proficiencies instead its meant only to enhance it with the character’s experience. A character can still spend his early years and career becoming proficient or an expert in his chosen weapon with the expenditure of his or her feats but now another character with years of experience in combat does not suffer from finding a new weapon in his hands. Yes there might be slight differences but a veteran of combat should find the proper technique with little or no official training.


The Rules

A character can still spend feats as he sees fit. Example: A First level human fighter can take the exotic weapon proficiency: Bastard Sword and could also take Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword etc. Now later when his BAB would qualify him for the bastard sword proficiency he doesn’t get his feat back it’s simply lost.

Each exotic weapon has a certain BAB requirement you must fulfill before you


There are a few situations where some weapons are easier or harder to become proficient based upon your experience. These are called Advantages/Disadvantages and though the advantage is a negative it is truly a positive as it removes some of the BAB requirements.

Advantages

Familiarity: At the DM’s discretion weapon focus, or above, with a similar weapon can remove a -2 from the BAB requirement. Example: WF: Rapier –2 penalty upon the requirements of Elven Lightblade and maybe even Elven Thinblade. (See Complete Warrior for more info on these weapons.)

Disadvantages

Racial: Weapons unique to a race concur +2 BAB penalty for characters not of that race. At the DM’s discretion this penalty can be removed due to long term exposure to that race and weapon. Example: A human would have a +2 BAB requirement for an Elven Lightblade while an Elf would not.

Note: This disadvantage is needed with additional racial weapons and rules for said weapon in the complete warrior.

Martial Weapons: Characters who do not have the Martial Weapons proficiencies incur a +6 BAB penalty for exotic weapon do to their lack of weapon knowledge. (Martial Weapons will be added to these rules it’s a known issue.)

Denials

Characters who do not have at least the simple weapons proficiencies do not qualify for these rules.


BAB Requirements

+4 Whip Group, Net, Hand Crossbow, Blowgun, greater

+6 Bolas, Repeating Crossbows, Greatspear, Boomerang

+8 Dwarven Waraxe, Bastard Sword, Elven Thinblade, Elven Lightblade, Dwarven Buckler Axe, Gnome Tortoise Blade, Dire Pick, Warmace, Mancatcher, Barbed Bolas

+10 Dire Flail, Gnome Hammer, Dwarven Urgrosh, Spike Chain, Greatbows, Double Hammer, Lajatang, Heavy Poleaxe

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I still have to do some of the weapons from the splat books... but if someone who knows the odds for typical damage, typical critical and is a power gamer if you could go over the required BAB and tell me where I hit and missed I would appreciate it.

right now I have most of the really exotic weapons at +10